The new war cry of GC: Blame agzg!

:D

I guess my whole point was that because (in terms of member organizations) NPC membership is fairly static, that it would take a major shakeup and/or outside forces to see them adding groups or significantly changing the number of members (like in the late 40s when they added a boatload). But I could be really wrong.

This whole thing is starting to remind me of the oldu "OMG, ASA and AST are both smaller and gold and green Alpha Sigmas - they should totally merge!" Thread. Nevermind that we probably have the highest percentage of chapters to shared campus ratio of any other GLOs.

LOL what a clusterfuck that would be. Also, I'm not interested in oldu's ridiculous rankings of who the stronger NPC organizations are.

But FIPG doesn't provide insurance. It provides risk management guidelines and educational resources.

As for membership, it may be true that there currently are not any members of FIPG that are not also NIC or NPC. But that doesn't mean there couldn't be. Per FIPG's By-Laws, its members must be members of the Fraternity Executives Association. There are non-NIC/NPC members of the FEA.

Exactly what I thought of.

I just HAD to go searching for it... :D

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=96233

I forget how many campuses we actually do share (I have that info located SOMEWHERE), but it is definitely a lot. Talk about sisters, both active and alumnae, being incredibly pissed off on both sides of the fence!

I love me some ASA, but there's no way in hell this would ever work. Obviously.

I don't think anyone has ASKED to be in the NPC in a long time. That could be what you mean by "outside forces", but let's just be clear that the NPC isn't sitting around voting not to let new orgs in.

New question... how DOES it all work? Have groups asked to be included in the past, or have they been invited? Or both?

If both, which has been done more?

Yes, I know that.

Alpha Omega Epsilon is a client.

ETA: Somewhere in here someone had asked if A.O.E. allows non-engineering and technical science majors. They answer is no, we do not. Chapters are actually fined for initiating non-approved majors.

This was one of the problems my campus Panhellenic had when trying to work my chapter into formal recruitment.

Oh, this is interesting. So what happens if a member is initiated and they are a hard science major then down the line decide to change majors to non hard science major? Are they asked to resign?

Nope: once you are an initiated active sister, you can change your major and nothing will happen. You are still an active with all voting rights.

If you change your major before active initiation, you won't be allowed to initiate. I only know one girl who was in this situation, and she simply waited until after active initiation to declare her new major.

I realize how inflammatory that could be, and in my mind, I wasn't looking for a list of sororities- it was more of a 'I'm a newb and didn't realize that there was a chance that any NPCs would be absorbed'. I'm super sorry if people took my comment/question the wrong way (which, in retrospect, is like blatantly obvious/unavoidable-giving-how-I-worded-it to me).

Not my area, but I remember BootyKBG saying at one time (I think 90s, can't find the thread) KBG was pursuing eventual membership into the NPC once they hit a certain number of chapters. Then, a leadership change in the NPC caused that to go off course.

Well, leadership is constantly changing in NPC since the officer positions cycle through the NPC member organizations.

First off, NIC sets NO rules about membership selection or rush - hell, there are NIC chapters that are co-ed - so that's why they can have NPHC chapters and chapters with narrow focii and it's OK. They also have 60 members.

The absolute impossibility of NPHC and NPC joining up has ZERO to do with race...unless Black people have a gene that made them create sororities that rush/acquire members the way NPHC groups so. If any of the NPHC sororities decided to drop that model, NPC would tell them come on in. They're huge!! They'd be crazy not to! I'm pretty sure the smallest NPHC group absolutely dwarfs (dwarves?) the largest NPC group.

Maybe Munchkin03 or one of the other AXOs can answer this...when did AXO stop being music focused? Was it before they joined NPC? As far as all the AES groups, I don't think any of them ever had something that said "only education majors can join." They were located only at normal schools or schools of education within bigger universities, so having such a clause would have been moot. When they went into NPC, there was nothing membership wise that had to be changed.

Well yeah but, wouldn't the same people be on the exec board* for a while? Sidney Allen just died and the Phoenix said about how she was the first ASA to cycle through all the chairs. In other words she wasn't secretary one year and totally off exec the next...she moved up to VP, president etc.

Re KBG, I think it was less a question of leadership per se changing (i.e. new people) than the climate of Greek life changing and the people involved maybe re-evaluating what they had said previously.

*I realize this may not be technically correct terminology so anyone thinking of correcting me, don't get your girdle in a knot.

I agree, but 26 different people also may have a different opinion regarding the matter when they swing through the top offices. A climate fostered by a receptive president may change when a president (who may have remained silent as secretary or VP) takes over who is less than receptive.

It is no coincidence that NPHC sororities are historically and predominantly Black and NPC sororities and fraternities are predominantly white. The membership intake formats of NPHC sororities were selected based on the specific needs of our organizations; and they have historical and present significance that is not completely separate from race, gender, and education level. That's why these are historically and predominantly Black college (and college educated alumnae) women's organizations.

It is wonderful that most of the NPHC fraternities are a part of the NIC because the NIC doesn't have rush/membership intake regulations. However, there is no guarantee that this would be the case even if an NPHC sorority was to change its membership intake format. Compatibility in this regard may not only be about rush/membership intake.

/Something being correlated with race does not mean there is exclusion and discrimination on the basis of race.

I'm REALLY hoping I'm overthinking this and you aren't implying that NPC orgs have no history, tradition, legacy, or place in the community, :eek:

A goat knows better. So should you.

off the NPHC focus, and more towards no council nationals and special interest sororities

Even though I am an NPC member I completely agree with this. Sure we can let groups opt out of formal recruitment or adjust to having chapters comfortable with smaller numbers but I think our extension policies would completely stifle the growth of any group that has a particular focus or is smaller but trying to grow.

A non-NPC group can be initially spearheaded by as little as 1 or 2 persistent women. And if the group is national in the sense they have advisors and insurance they can often get officially recognized as a sorority with as little as a dozen women and grow from there as they prefer. They can be proactive in their extension attempts and actively reach out to women to start a chapter of their organizations at schools that make sense to them.

Joining NPC would ruin this for them. I don't see how a small general interest sorority could ever compete and win in our regular open extension process. And from my personal experience as a member of a "special interest sorority" I don't even think it serves us amazingly. Though I have never been directly involved with my groups extension efforts this is how I see it: We basically have to hope that special interest groups are formed since we can't actively try to create them ourselves and hope that CPC will let them pursue national affiliation before they either give up, decide to stay local or affiliate with a non-npc group b/c its easier. We have a century of history and name recognition in the jewish community that helps us out but a chapter just meeting npc's membership requirements doesn't have that and i think it would be hard for them to get around it.

You're underthinking.

My biggest issue with the whole situation is that, whatever KBG's intentions, as there is no associate membership, or recognition by the NPC of up and coming national GLOs, their chapters continue to be 'fair game.' They could have 14 chapters and 18 months later have a chapter picked off by an NPC. It's disrespectful IMO on an organizational level.

It is what it is. Unless the member groups agree to leave them alone, they'll have to keep a tight watch on their chapters. Without being a part of the UAs, they aren't protected by them. I don't agree with it either, but it doesn't matter what you or I think. If you look at it from AEPhiSierra's perspective, it's a Catch22. You join and never get another chapter since no CPC will pick such a small organization in an expansion environment over one of the other NPC groups with greater resources.

Which is also dumb.

I'm not disagreeing it is what it is, but that doesn't mean it's not something that the NPC could change, either by offering associate membership or some sort of recognition. And I think it's a matter of respect for other organizations.

No one was "picking off" their chapters. They weren't properly caring for those chapters and the exasperated members eventually decided to look elsewhere. KBG didn't even have an operational web site for several years and their "new and improved" site is still incomplete. I'm going to say it: here's a history there of neglect and it isn't a matter of the poor little chapters being lured away by the big NPC national siren's song. I sincerely hope KBG has gotten their act together and can look forward to a thriving future, but they had some very dark days there. I don't want to see any Greek organization fail, but like with any relationship, you have to take care of your people.

WTF?

FWIW, I think this is a problem even WITHIN the NPC orgs--so many members/PNMs focus on the collegiate/social aspect, sometimes at the expense of the lifelong/history/tradition/alum aspect (not all, of course), and I could see why someone might think that, depending on their experience with/ perceptions of NPC orgs and members. Which is a shame.

That is true...BUT, if they were a chapter of Pi Phi or AOII, they would be S.O.L. No other NPC could come in to rescue them and turn them into a new chapter of say Sigma Kappa or Phi Mu.

With deference to DrPhil's answer above, I again, offer my explanation on this point.

First and foremost NPHC orgs focus is service, not social. My understanding is that the NPC is the opposite. Correct me if I am wrong. Not only is the NPHC focus service, it targets a specific community - the AfAm community. Do we serve others and do others gain from our service? Sure they do. Again, to really understand the true purpose of the NPHC you must understand the crucial reasons why we were founded. We were founded to help resolve issues in the AfAm community, so in this respect it is about race.

Joining a NPHC org (and for any other org) should not be about how you join, but why you join and what you do once you are a member. If you feel that a particular GLO fits what you want to do, join. If not KIM.

Oh for sure, but an organization is not likely to get to the numbers and history required to join the NPC if they can't take care of and nurture the chapters they already have. (I mean that as a general statement for any group.)

See this :
This means you have zero respect in this conversation. None. So buhbye.
Exactly. I'm not saying chapters would never close, or go local, or even go local and later affiliate/be absorbed, but the incentive for active members to make that vote is removed. And ultimately the troll's point above doesn't matter. NPCs fail to take care of chapters well and lose them all the time. But they're shuttered, and given the opportunity to rebuild later. Other national chapters don't get that respect and I think it's something that should change.

Yet Petunia continues to respond to me.

Just a few posts after the one you responded to, sigmadiva, in response to IrishLake, made clear that she wasn't implying that NPC orgs have no history, tradition, legacy or place in the community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2054718) Quote: Originally Posted by IrishLake (Post 2054705) Quote: Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2054702) For the NPHC, it is not just joining a sorority per se, it is seen as becoming part of a legacy in an org that has very strong family traditions, and in some cases, expectations. This can also be very NPC. Yeah, I know. I just did not know how else to describe it. :o

Hence, IrishLake's response to you -- sigmadiva had already addressed your concern.

Regardless of whether KBG nationals was a giant box of hair, IMO from what people on here said - including people included with those 2 chapters - the women in the chapters didn't seem to understand the gravity of what they were doing and if they didn't, the older and wiser NPCs colonizing them should have told them. It's the same as if you're pledging a chapter that closes and take a bid from another place. Yes you are entitled and allowed to do that and no you don't have to say anything to your ex-soon-to-be chapter, but it's the good and kind thing to do.

Dr Phil & sigmadiva - I read this on a local mb the other night and was waiting for a GC discussion to slip it into...this seems as good a place as any.

a lotta people think that's the end of racism, when white kids treat black kids as pigmented whites.
which is extremely similar to 'gays against marriage'; we're not the same and we don't want to be.

Truth?

It is no way similar to "gays against marriage," but there is nothing wrong with separation as long as it is based on equal opportunity and equal choice.

NPC/NPHC
 

I would use a sports analogy:

Both teams play a sport; One team is playing basketball, one team is playing football. Different rules, different ball, different uniforms - but both are undoubtedly sports teams. Neither one is "better" - just different.

We are both playing basketball; or both playing football. ;) We just have different coaches and different playing strategies.

Our drafts are also much different . . .

I guess. ;)

I just don't like the analogy of playing different sports because that exaggerates our differences and supports why Greek Life and Student Affairs offices at many predominantly white institutions don't know what to do with GLOs that are non-NPC and non-NIC.

"Greetings, First Year students! We have 15 wonderfulllll sororities and fraternities; and 10 historically Black, Hispanic, and Asian sororities and fraternities. That's a total of 25 sororities and fraternities. Fifteen of which are wonderfullllll!!" :D:D:D:D