Anys news yet PNM?

I was wondering the same thing...

I didn't get invited back...I don't understand and I never will
I have no idea what they were looking for then because so many other great girls I know that have wanted this for a long time too were cut in favor of those who decided to do it on a whim and have no desire or drive to build a colony

I'm done with Greekchat and recruitment forever. The whole process is truly messed up
thanks for the kind words everyone
Bye.

I'm so sorry, PNM.

You're right that you never will know why you didn't get asked back, so don't dwell on it. You said you met a lot of great girls, so at least you made some friends out of this. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

PNM, I am sorry; it's very difficult/hard when recruitment doesn't end the way we want or expect or hope it will. No one here knows what the Alpha Phi colony is seeking, and it wouldn't be possible for anyone to comment even if he/she did know. That said, I truly wish you the best of luck in the future with whatever you decide.

This is such a bummer! It is certainly easier as a bystander to say hey, you screwed up, you didn't consider all of your options, whatever, but for both of these gals, they seemed to do everything right, have the attitude, the ambition, and courtesy that should have been just what any of the sororities would want. I just wish I could hug both of them and tell them it will all be ok. At least PNM and PPT have each other and they know they aren't going through this alone. But that's not much consolation! I'm so sorry.

I'm really sad to hear this, and I'm sorry. :(

What she said. It's really a shame when a system has no place for such open-minded, motivated PNMs.
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Maybe I'm completely out of touch, and if I am, I'm sure you'll tell me - but this story and the one from other young woman at FSU make me think that maybe something could be reworked on this campus?

I mean, from the outside, it sounds like there are plenty of women who want to be in a sorority, but aren't, for whatever reason getting chosen. Grades? OK, that's one thing. But rejected because you aren't a Freshman? I don't get it.

But the fact that a new colony has space for 170 and has 360 interested (and presumably mostly qualified) applicants? It sounds to me that supply is not meeting demand. Which, at least to me, says that they might want to take a long hard look at things.

It just seems a little lopsided.

Am I oversimplifying? Probably - but it's stories like this that make me feel bad about the system I'm a part of.

Which is really a shame because instead of those women becoming excited, motivated representatives of what is great about being Greek, I imagine many of them become outspoken critics of the system and carry a bad feeling with them the rest of their lives. :(

PNM at FSU, I wouldn't give up on the possibility of Alpha Phi doing COB in the future. As with installed chapters, girls will drop out of school, transfer to another school, or disaffiliate because they realize Greek life won't work out for them (finances, academics, jobs, etc.).

I know that everyone is hurting for these women, and trust me I am too. It sucks to be in that situation.

However, it really is just a case of having more wonderful applicants than you can take. It happens everywhere where there is a large scale colonization such as this one.

Colony numbers are determined by average chapter size at that school. It's not some arbitrary number that is just made up, and it's not determined by "supply/demand." It's the size that Panhellenic and APhi decided would make for a strong chapter.

I dunno, I just don't want people going the wrong way here and assertng that Alpha Phi is somehow in the wrong for not taking on more women.

I don't read the post you quoted as blaming Alpha Phi for not taking more...but that the system as a whole is supposed to accommodate all the qualified women, and that does not seem to be the case at FSU. There's something wrong system-wide if great women are open to all houses and still get cut.
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Actually, I lob that assertion not against Alpha Phi, or any specific house on that campus - I would say that Greek Life at FSU may want to reconsider house totals, but I'm certainly not saying that any one house is doing something wrong - I think they're all following rules, and that's fine.

But I can't see any reason why, for girls who are willing to "maximize their options", there shouldn't be a bid somewhere.

House totals have absolutely nothing to do with this. The sororities are allowed to go over total (sometimes WAY WAY over total) when the quota system is used. Girls who maximize their options DO usually end up with bids. "Maximize your options" does not mean the sororities cannot cut women along the way. That's their right. There's one school that we know of that has guaranteed bidding and basically what happens at the end is that there are PNMs everyone has tried to drop, and one or the other sorority has to suck it up and take them. Would you want to receive a bid in that manner? I know I wouldn't.

And I hate to say it, but if yinz think this is messy and unfair - wait till next fall and DG at UA. I wouldn't be surprised if they have almost as many girls coming out for that colony as they do for rush, period.

PNM at FSU - I'm sorry that you were disappointed.

I agree, to a point. Let's be honest, not everyone is appropriate for the Greek system. Then it becomes an assortment of clubs rather than selective membership organizations.

However- when more than twice as many are interested in a colony than they have room for, it makes me wonder. Are those numbers typical? It makes sense that a colony doesn't just accept everyone (mutual selection and all) and I know some will go for a colony that wouldn't go through formal, but if there are that many women that are interested chances are a good portion of them would make great sisters somewhere. No we will never solve the issue of not matching everyone- and that's okay.

I obviously don't have access to the stats so my data points are limited, but both PNM & PPT are sophomores and based on others' comments it sounds like there's a large disadvantage at going through there as an upperclassmen. Maybe an upperclassmen quota is something that would help out here.

PNM & PPT... best wishes to you both.

I tend to agree. I sympathize with PPT and PNM and totally encourage them to keep an eye out for COB opportunities, should they still want to be in a sorority, but I have to believe that on most levels, the system works. If it doesn't, and people are going to get all up in arms about it, then find a solution that works and get hopping on making that happen.

Furthermore, if Alpha Phi is turning these PNMs away in great numbers, the system is built in such a way that future colonies may be established, should that be the choice of the CPC and university along with other member groups in the NPC. It won't help PPT and PNM, but every colony established is a step in the direction of more inclusiveness on the part of Greek Life at FSU.

It might be naive, I just really hesitate to throw out a "baaah the system doesn't work! The system sucks" when we're currently at a loss as to what changes could be made (aside from guaranteeing placement, adding an upperclassmen quota, raising total, and bringing another colony on campus - I'm talking the bare bones of the NPC formal recruitment process here) which would make it better.

It's a total bummer for both of you guys. Good luck with COR, should you choose or have the opportunity to participate, and good luck in your college years.

That is something lacking at FSU and hopefully that will be remedied.

But as far as new colonies...could FSU conceivably have a campus where every NPC group has a good sized chapter? Yes. IF the PNMs and the campus in general would be open to joining groups that are new, or not as much name recognition in the area, or not as much alum support. You have to start somewhere. But it is so, so, so costly, in plain old $$$ and in man-hours, to start a colony someplace like this and the thought of it not succeeding is the kind of thing that keeps national councillors up at night.

In other words, if it was that dang easy to do it, everyone would have already done it.

Re: upperclassman quota

I don't know enough about FSU's campus to comment on whether this is the best idea for them, so again, I will defer to those who do.

However, there is a very real risk that an upperclassman quota can hurt the smaller chapters in two ways:

1) PNM's who don't like their invites freshman year are far more likely to drop out and think they can give it another go next year.

2) Chapters that often hit quota by taking some of the sophomore released everywhere else will no longer have that way to help their numbers.

3) There may even be PNM's who wait to rush to avoid live-in requirements.

Just saying that there are downsides, and an upperclassman quota would not necessarily mean more women got placed in chapters.

1) You can't fix stupid.

2) There are enough women rushing that it shouldn't be a problem.

3) Again, you can't fix stupid. If anything, they're more screwed because I don't think live-in reqs say you must live there "junior year" or whatever...just that you must live there for x amount of time. If you're a senior living in a house full of sophomores, it's your own fault.

If you know the campus, and it's the right thing to do, I certainly think it is an option. My point is just that it is not a one-size-fits-all solution that can be applied without considering a bunch of other things first.

All of these are valid points that need to be considered; however, with the renewed interest in greeklife membership at FSU, even given the current economy, I think FSU PH needs to seriously consider (1) increasing campus chapter total (which I have heard through the grapevine may be increased from 150 to 170 this semester - which may open up some chapters to COB in spring - especially with more than a handful graduating from each chapter in December every year), (2) definitely set an upperclassman quota, and (3) look at extending to an additional NPC chapter within the next 2 years, if these numbers remain that high. FSU Recruitment has gotten way too, competitive and especially impacting further the current anti-legacy trend in most chapters on campus - it is not helping with their continued alumnae support base that's for sure. However, having said all of that, unfortunately, there is still at least one struggling chapter on campus who did not make quota this year and remains about half the size of other chapters - by choice? I don't know the answer, but maybe, if so, then they are finally getting more quality women. Either that, or they are playing their numbers game wrong and focusing on PNM's who may release them anyway. And, as strong as this chapter's alumnae are in the area, they still need help with Recruitment. Either way, FSU needs to look long and hard at their options for improving the process.

every chapter at fsu has met quota for the past several years, according to my information. most of the sororities are above total. The houses typically house between 50-80 members-i can't imagine how they do dinners now-i would imagine they had to go to buffet service.

as at any university, colonization is expensive, but on a campus like fsu, where most of the sororities own their own homes and the homes are absolutely breathtaking,not to mention historical and rim the campus, it is very costly. to be competitive the sorority would have to eventually be housed. there are no lots available-the majority of the houses have been where they are for a loooooong time. there are some sorority houses that fraternities are currently renting that may become available for new groups in the future. i would imagine that sororities would much prefer for other sororities to rent their houses.

there are lots where the fraternities have built houses, but that is off campus and i would pity any sorority who built there. it would not be fun to be out there with the boys! too wild!

i hope that fsu(and uf) will consider an upperclasswoman quota. It seems they work out very well on the campuses that use them, but even if they use one, it will not be a panacea.

typically, colonies are given a few years to get their act together before another group is brought on and i agree with this philosophy. it does no good to bring on a colony/chapter if they are not given the chance to thrive.

How are they doing release figures at FSU? That's also something to think about. Back when I was an active, NPC was piloting a new system that would better predict returns, and set release figures accordingly, but I've been so out of the loop that I have no idea if that ever became widespread.

Could you explain this more? Why are the chapters anti-legacy? Do you mean the alumnae aren't helping the chapters out of retaliation that their girl didn't get selected?

Maybe if PNM at FSU had just given Floor Length a little more time instead of dropping out, she might have found out that she had something in common with some of them. I can't imagine being in a sorority of 100+ girls at FSU and not having a common bond with not one girl! From what some of you have said, Pref can be magical and change a PNM's whole outlook on a sorority. PNM at FSU dropped out for her specific reasons during the early rounds of recruitment, if she had made it to Pref, she may have found her home. My daughter said it's sad when PNM's assume a whole sorority is based off of the few actives they meet during recruitment or from tent talk and miss out on finding that special home. I really wish PNM at FSU and PPT the best, there are a lot of things to get involved in at FSU to make a difference and enjoy the college experience.

they do rfm and have been for a while now.

It is definitely not by choice. However, struggling also doesn't mean that you simply invite everybody. Women still need to meet the standards of the chapter, grade requirements, and get along well with the chapter. It is pretty obvious when a PNM doesn't really want to be there. How many of these threads do we read where a PNM says over and over "I keep cutting them and they keep inviting me back anyway!" It's not helpful to keep inviting women who are clearly disinterested but keep the chapter on to "maximize their options", you know? It ruins the whole atmosphere of an event to do that. Also, you can have very high quality women in a small chapter but tent talk is powerful and overcoming that is a real challenge.

That information is incorrect.

I suspect that Floor Length is the struggling chapter noted above. I agree with you though, that it seems like at these schools where chapters are so large, it would be almost impossible to not connect with some women in the chapter if you gave it a chance. At schools with less than 30 members, i can understand that all the members may be more similar, but in these larger chapters, a young woman is bound to connect with some women in the chapter.

Does this chapter hold COB?
________

They might, and they might not. And they might not want to advertise it all over the interwebz if they do. :)

(I don't know jack squat about this chapter in particular, just stating that in general sometimes sororities do not openly advertise COB.)

Hello again..I know I said I wouldn't post again on here but now its time for

ROUND 3

Are you ready?


************************************************** ****************

So after not getting Alpha Phi I signed up for about a million things on campus and got super involved. I made a lot of friends through Alpha Phi's recruitment (PinkPalmTree included!) and was happy.

In the back of my mind though I still wanted to be in a sorority, so I emailed all the recruitment chairs and presidents (all 15 of them). Some chapters answered me back with the kind words of "I have your information, I'll keep your name in mind for spring"...basically it was the same thing: come back in spring come back in spring come back in spring

Now I was prepared to do spring anyway.. but you have to figure that if fall didn't work out as a first semester sophomore, second semester would not help me at all even if I did get my grades to impressive level

One sorority emailed me back though..Floor Length. After recruitment ended I did realize the horrible mistake I made in dropping out so early after getting caught up in the whirlwind of recruitment (and the tent talk, I admit that). The president was super nice and said that I could come for dinner and bring any friend I wanted since they were going through COB. I decided to ask my friend Jennifer (not her real name).

So we went last week and had a BLAST! I met so many girls who were so different from the ones during recruitment. We were invited back again the next day! The second time was amazing too.

Jennifer is a triple legacy to a different sorority on campus but decided to not go through formal recruitment because she thought a sorority wouldnt be for her...

Anyways we went back today and things were a little weird. Jennifer and I started freaking out because we thought this is the part where they say that one of us gets it or neither of us fits and we come back in the spring or just something bad. They took us into a room and we were on the verge of tears because this is the third time in 3 months (twice for her) that we get rejected

The president told us "I have something to tell you"



























HERE ARE YOUR BIDS TO [COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]FLOOR LENGTH[/COLOR]!!!!!!!!






We started crying and jumping and screaming and I am SO HAPPY I CANT EVEN TYPE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tomorrow we go back to make it official










Want to know what Floor Length is?

Yay PNM at FSU!!! And yes please.

Thanks guys :D

And yes KSUViolet, tomorrow night!!!!!

So Floor Length is

ALPHA GAMMA DELTA

I'm so happy for you and AGD. Since they didn't make the best first impression, I'm glad you had this extra time to think about things and make the right decision for you without feeling too rushed. We don't all have a fairytale experience from the start, but sometimes things work out. In funny ways. I hope in a few months after initiation you can change your name to AGD at FSU :)

oh, wow. Just amazed, and pleased, and surprised, and saying congratulations to you and AGD. Enjoy everything and come back and let us know how you're doing.

Congrats to you and Alpha Gamma Delta! Welcome to the Syracuse Triad!

Aww, I love a happy ending. Congratulations to you and AGD!