I don't know, writing a bad a check and using a credit card with no intention of paying it are the same in eyes.

There's bouncing a check and there's an intentionally bad check. One's a mistake and you pay a fee to your bank, the business, etc. One's fraud and possibly theft of services.

Not paying your credit card is more of a violation of contract and not paying most debts is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

There's a system for it, our jails aren't it.

Yep, but didn't these people end up in jail because they didn't appear in court?

The article explains pretty easily how it's an abuse of the system, and how low the level of proof is on the debt collection company's part. There are other articles out there if you want to know more.

I have clients that try and commit fraud all of the time. They ok things when they know damn well they aren't going to pay for it. I am happy to see them go to jail. Good riddance.

Maybe particular creditors are abusing the system, but missing hearings in the court system is dead serious, as it should be. Otherwise, anybody in any kind of trouble would just skip out on going to court. The power of the court to issue consequences, including imprisonment, is the reason people take courts seriously.
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KarolinPosh cam

Although the article said that sometimes there was no evidence that the debtors were notified of the court date. That is simply shady.

Also, see the article.

Or AGDee's comment.

There's also the issue, though I'm not sure if it happens in these cases, of the debt purchasers taking the person to court in another jurisdiction. I know it can happen in lawsuits, but not sure about these cases.

Many of the people I see committing the fraud are simply shady. Pay your bills and you won't get into trouble or don't spend what you don't have.

There's a big difference between not being able to pay your bills and committing fraud. They're way on the other end of the spectrum from each other.

Even if they're no longer attempting to make payments, doesn't mean they incurred those debts with that intent. I won't deny that people who legitimately commit fraud are in the wrong. But they're not the majority of people failing to make payments.

My experience is they are committing fraud. We do alot of promise to pays for services and have found that less then 5% pay their bill (and my boss is very lenient, even 5$ a week will work-just give us something). We send then 3 notices that they are going to collections-sometimes these people give us fake addresses and phone numbers that are no longer in service. If they get caught and go to jail-I have no problem with that. These people signed paperwork wiithout any intention of paying their bill. It happens everyday where I work. On some nights I will have many people who come in without the intention of paying (but they have nice manicured nails, designer purses, last week a guy refused to pay and he was driving a porsche SUV).

You don't work with mortgages, do you?

I don't think it's true that homeowners WANT to put their $200,000+ homes in jeopardy, just so they can stick it to the man.

ETA: If only 5% of your company's customers pay, why doesn't your company tighten its lending policies?

What field are you in? Do you think that your views might be colored by your experiences and that it gives you a false perception of numbers?

I have a friend who works in insurance fraud, he knows better, but he gets himself in the habit of thinking that EVERYONE is cheating the system. He's good about catching himself when it happens though. (His opinions of the employees who send him the not-actually-fraud cases are just as low at times.)

I am a veterinarian. My boss is a very generous man. It is hard to see an animal suffering and not do anything that is why he is so lenient. If it were up to me I would tighten the lending practices but I don't own the clinic and as long as I get my paycheck I will abide by his rules.

BTW I am not talking about mortgages.

I am sure my experience does have something to do with it. Having to deal with these people everyday can suck you dry. Some people are really good at working the system. I did not say everyone was cheating the system-again 5% come back and pay. If those that don't pay end up in jail-I am fine with that. BTW this happens at every vet. clinic and is often a major topic of conversation when i get together with my colleagues. I have gotten pretty good about figuring out who will pay and who won't-yup that is right I am profiling.

Sorry, either if there's only a five percent return on those, it's either a poor business model or the owner is willing to accept an inordinately high amount of risk.

I also don't think that it's indicative of people who don't pay for other services.

Exactly.

you are right -it is a choice of what people will pay for (nails, handbags, cars, vacations) and often the pet loses.
But on the other hand the paying customer ultimately suffersas well b/c we have to increase or prices. You are right about one thing-many vet owners are poor business people-we tend to listen to our heart rather than our mind. We are by nature suckers and will do what we can even if we end up getting the short end of the stick. I still fully support some of these people going to jail.

On the whole, I think that's an issue of perceptions of pets in society and perhaps particularly in your area.

And I thought you said you weren't the owner of the business?

People who commit fraud should be forced to pay, I'm still not sure how jail actually helps you get your money though.

I am not the owner, I am an employee.

Nope this happens all throughout the US/canada/australia/england-there is a veterinary information site for vets only from all over the world that deal with this everyday according to many posts I have read. I wish our situation was unique but it is not.

ETA-I don't know if going to jail will give us or money or not but just the satisfaction of these people being punished is good enough for me.

The debtors prison model has been tried.
It wasn't very successful - (see Dickens).
The punishment for those who don't pay their bills is they tank their credit.
Imprisoning them doesn't serve anyone's interests - it costs the taxpayers, and the creditors don't get their money.

Damn. That's some sadistic stuff right there. :(

Texas has the reputation for a reason? :-/

HEY HEY HEY.

Yeah yeah I knew I'd get slammed for that. I'm only referring to those people who say "Don't Mess With Texas" and hope the rest of us don't know it's a "Please don't litter" sign. :p

As someone who collects on delinquent child support...

Jail is a powerful motivator. I've never actually gotten anyone jail time. By the time that sentencing hearing comes up, I always have money in the bank or an acceptable proposal for a payment plan.

Which suggests the people who actually end up in jail probably cannot actually pay the debt.

If only judges were willing to use it - in my experience, as in yours, apparently, jail time is not actually given. Don't think the deadbeats don't know it. I have a stack of expensive papers saying my ex owes child support - but all he had to do was say "Oh, I'm going to pay" and the judge would shake his/her finger at him and say "Naughty, naughty". I took him to court at least 5 times before I wised up to the fact that the only people getting money were my lawyers. Not that I'm bitter . . . and the TX AG office won't go after my sister's ex, who owes well over $12,000 - because he is in Michigan. :mad: