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-   -   Student suspended for facebook slam against teacher (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=111723)

RU OX Alum 02-25-2010 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooh La La (Post 1901088)
Whoa whoa whoa. I don't agree with this post Colombine talk. I go to Virginia Tech and if we cancelled class every time someone called a teacher a name, we'd have the whole semester off.
Truth

DrPhil 02-25-2010 09:50 AM
No one is talking about cancelling class everytime a student calls a teacher a name. That's almost everyday fodder for many schools, especially large state schools.

Faculty and staff at VTech are trained in how to deal with students calling them names and issuing perceived threats. They were trained in that before the VTech shooting and reminded after the shooting with some policy changes. That includes discussions of panic buttons in classrooms and the forwarding of emails to administration. This is how it is at VTech and the majority of colleges and universities. For a darn good reason.

And I remind students that while faculty were once students, the students have never been faculty so they need to think about all the good and potential bad that goes into interacting with, and speaking before, students everyday. The petition for criminal, mental, and emotional background checks for students has been deemed a bad idea for most institutions.

AGDee 02-25-2010 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901092)
I think schools are probably better off ignoring "Mr. So and So is an idiot" facebook comments or pages unless the comments made on them rise to the level of slander or libel or if it would meet an off-campus real world standard for threatening behavior.

Just as it would be counter productive to invest a lot of time monitoring lunch and hallway conversations or even the occasional in class comment for non-threatening negative comments about teachers, it doesn't make sense to schools to get into trying to monitor the web, even if the 1st amendment issues could be cleared up.

Sure, it hurts your feelings to have a hate group made about you, but you look like a bigger idiot when you get all wrapped up what's being said about you by 16 year-olds on facebook.

If, for some reason, the comment actually does create an on campus disruption, then deal with the disruption as a disruption, not the comments themselves.

And any school system that isn't blocking facebook on campus pretty effectively for at least the non-tech-geek students is probably missing the boat, if only to avoid having to deal with the bs that eighth grade girls are going to post about each other.
Sis, you and I *rarely* agree, so mark the calendar. I agree completely.

naraht 02-25-2010 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srmom (Post 1901012)
You speak as if you have experience with this. Were you the swatter or the swattee?:D
Actually came from a discussion with someone trying to sell an Alpha Phi Omega paddle on eBay with a description that made it clear that his primary audience in trying to sell in was to the BDSM crowd.

What I found out later in trying to find out how I could make this unlikely to occur again is that due to advancements in the technology of paddles, the only time the obvious fraternity paddles are used in the BDSM community is if the person's particular kink is pretending to be in a hazing situation. This is almost exclusively gay BDSM since co-ed fraternities are relatively rare and didn't become more common until the use of paddles started to decline and sorority hazing as a kink is as far as I can tell is less likely to use paddles. So, the easiest way to get old Alpha Phi Omega paddles less likely to be sold that way is to point out that we are currently co-ed. :)


Also, I honestly feel that I have learned *more than enough* about this topic.

DrPhil 02-25-2010 04:49 PM
Wise school officials address issues at the front-end rather than after the consequences of the issues take form. That is also why teachers K-12 and collegiate are advised to notify the proper officials if they receive questionable correspondence or are aware of something on or off the Internet that MIGHT be inappropriate. It is much easier to punish and teach lessons now, just in case, than to try to calm a school disruption. No one can predict school disruptions and control whether there will be any substantive harm caused.

One of the worst things in the world is when something happens and people reflect and say "well, he did create that fan page a few weeks ago....." Duhhhhh...does someone have to urine in your drinking glass for you to acknowledge that urine is an undesirable beverage?

Ooh La La 02-25-2010 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1901290)
And I remind students that while faculty were once students, the students have never been faculty so they need to think about all the good and potential bad that goes into interacting with, and speaking before, students everyday.
I never really thought of that. It's a very good point.

UGAalum94 02-25-2010 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1901430)
Wise school officials address issues at the front-end rather than after the consequences of the issues take form. That is also why teachers K-12 and collegiate are advised to notify the proper officials if they receive questionable correspondence or are aware of something on or off the Internet that MIGHT be inappropriate. It is much easier to punish and teach lessons now, just in case, than to try to calm a school disruption. No one can predict school disruptions and control whether there will be any substantive harm caused.

One of the worst things in the world is when something happens and people reflect and say "well, he did create that fan page a few weeks ago....." Duhhhhh...does someone have to urine in your drinking glass for you to acknowledge that urine is an undesirable beverage?
Yep, but there's a lot of overreaction too. Sometimes kids just wants to verbalize their dissatisfaction, but there's absolutely no implied threat.

In cases in which the kids is unstable inter-personally as well as making comments online, you're in a whole different area, but I think many of us can tell the difference in the majority of cases.

UGAalum94 02-25-2010 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 1901396)
Sis, you and I *rarely* agree, so mark the calendar. I agree completely.
I like to think that we probably agree on most things that actually matter in life. We just differ on how we'd politically get there, (probably mainly because of my dark view of human nature)

DrPhil 02-25-2010 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901503)
Yep, but there's a lot of overreaction too. Sometimes kids just wants to verbalize their dissatisfaction, but there's absolution no implied threat.
Lesson learned: Think before you speak. Either shut up about it or express it in a more discreet manner. That also applies to college students who think it is wise to blast professors on the Internet. Discretion and appropriate behavior are things that should be learned long before they go through GLO recruitment. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901503)
In cases in which the kids is unstable inter-personally as well as making comments online, you're in a whole different area, but I think many of us can tell the difference in the majority of cases.
Treat ALL students who exhibit certain behaviors the same from the start as to avoid profiling particular "types" of students. No one can tell the "difference." That's the point.

33girl 02-25-2010 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901503)
Yep, but there's a lot of overreaction too. Sometimes kids just wants to verbalize their dissatisfaction, but there's absolution no implied threat.

In cases in which the kids is unstable inter-personally as well as making comments online, you're in a whole different area, but I think many of us can tell the difference in the majority of cases.
When I think of some of the things we said about our teachers...it was completely just blowing off steam. And it's not like making a facebook page is hard. If someone said this kid was obsessed with weapons or fire though, that might give me pause.

DrPhil 02-25-2010 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1901512)
When I think of some of the things we said about our teachers...it was completely just blowing off steam.
And if you had found a very public way to blow off your steam, you would've created a formal record of your steam that would be worthy of parental and/or school punishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1901512)
If someone said this kid was obsessed with weapons or fire though, that might give me pause.
Why? Can't this kid be obsessed with whatever he wants in the comfort of his own home? :) Not everyone who is obsessed with weapons or fire is dangerous---the National Rifle Association and National Fire Association have the data to prove that. Why don't we wait until the kid kills the entire school before we begin to pause?

DaemonSeid 02-25-2010 08:21 PM
Well at the point when shots are going off, you'd be too busy running to pause. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1901511)
Lesson learned: Think before you speak. Either shut up about it or express it in a more discreet manner. That also applies to college students who think it is wise to blast professors on the Internet. Discretion and appropriate behavior are things that should be learned long before they go through GLO recruitment. :)
That's why I am smh at everyone that keeps yelling, "Well he had the right to do it!" Just because you have a RIGHT to say something doesn't mean that you won't be held accountable for it later.

Sure, you have the right to say whatever the hell you want. Someone else has the right to not hire you, not let you into their school or not do business with you. Just ask Michael, Don and Isiah.

This kid may wind up going to court and win...sure...but down the line if someone thinks about hiring him and yes, those court records can be sealed since he is a minor, the fact that he was in the news and the news record is an 'unofficial public record' documenting something that happened in your life that you were involved in, can adversely affect you being hired.

DrPhil 02-25-2010 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1901517)
Well at the point when shots are going off, you'd be too busy running to pause. :D
:)

And afterwards, people would be looking for after-the-fact CLUES. OMG, he created that facebook fan page! OMG, he was always bitching about life! OMG, he wanted to buy guns but we thought he was just a collector. OHHHHHEMMMMMGEEEEE!!!!!! Why didn't we catch these sooner?!?! We missed the warning signs!!!! Stooopid us?!?!?!?!?

DaemonSeid 02-25-2010 08:27 PM
as you said... "well duh."

Sometimes it's just better keeping some things to yourself.

Something else too, as I was jsut discussing this with s/o, I told her that sometimes if you are that pissed off, or you feeling shadey, why not do what you need to do anonymously!!!!

UGAalum94 02-25-2010 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1901511)
Lesson learned: Think before you speak. Either shut up about it or express it in a more discreet manner. That also applies to college students who think it is wise to blast professors on the Internet. Discretion and appropriate behavior are things that should be learned long before they go through GLO recruitment. :)



Treat ALL students who exhibit certain behaviors the same from the start as to avoid profiling particular "types" of students. No one can tell the "difference." That's the point.
I agree that it's not about profiling types of students. It's about recognizing types of behavior and acting on that behavior.

But it doesn't make sense to treat a kid who has never demonstrated scary behavior before saying "that teacher is the worst teacher I've ever had" online as if she in fact threatened the teacher or as if she said it to the teacher's face in class (as happened in a previous facebook case).

I don't have a problem with schools simply talking some students for the reasons that you suggest, but trying to discipline students for non-threatening, non-disruptive comments that they made online away from campus is probably counterproductive.

Since they are teenagers, sometimes no reaction, or at least no reaction that they know of, is actually the best way to make a behavior go away.

AGDee 02-25-2010 10:41 PM
Interestingly, and possibly sort of related, my daughter's high school created a fan page on Facebook and kids starting becoming a fan right and left. I noticed my daughter had not and asked her why. She said "Whoever started that page can see all your personal stuff if you become their fan and I'm concerned people will start getting in trouble for what they put on Facebook" And she's a straight A student, Girl Scout, band geek who would probably not do or say anything that would get her in trouble, but she's smart enough to realize that it might not be the wisest thing to join that page, not knowing who has access to the info!

My mother ALWAYS said, never put anything in writing that you wouldn't want published in the newspaper. This applies to the 'net too.

Ooh La La 02-25-2010 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1901521)
:)

And afterwards, people would be looking for after-the-fact CLUES. OMG, he created that facebook fan page! OMG, he was always bitching about life! OMG, he wanted to buy guns but we thought he was just a collector. OHHHHHEMMMMMGEEEEE!!!!!! Why didn't we catch these sooner?!?! We missed the warning signs!!!! Stooopid us?!?!?!?!?
That's the type of thing that's happening at VT right now. And while some administrators did report the bastard that shot up my school, it never really penetrated the higher levels. The worst way to learn a lesson? Yes. But you still have to have that line before the policing becomes too much.

UGAalum94 02-25-2010 10:49 PM
AGDee,

I don't think being a fan of something does actually give them access to all of your info, but better safe than sorry.

From Facebook:

"Page privacy for fans
Can a Page see my information if I become a fan?

Pages cannot see the profiles of their fans. They can only see the profile photo and name of each of their fans. In addition, Pages do not receive a News Feed with information about what their fans are doing. Pages can communicate with their fans through updates in your Inbox, but they have no additional access to your personal information."

DrPhil 02-26-2010 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901564)
Since they are teenagers, sometimes no reaction, or at least no reaction that they know of, is actually the best way to make a behavior go away.
The success of that is 50-50, which is why I deal with any unacceptable behavior from teenagers the way that I feel adults should deal with children:
You let them know what the rules and expectations are right away so you can spend less time repeating yourself and trying to reestablish the respect and conformity that you let slip away because you were busy "not reacting."

You'll have plenty of time to let kids' behaviors roll off your back. Everytime isnt the right time.

UGAalum94 02-26-2010 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1901603)
The success of that is 50-50, which is why I deal with any unacceptable behavior from teenagers the way that I feel adults should deal with children:
You let them know what the rules and expectations are right away so you can spend less time repeating yourself and trying to reestablish the respect and conformity that you let slip away because you were busy "not reacting."

You'll have plenty of time to let kids' behaviors roll off your back. Everytime isnt the right time.
which is why I said "sometimes no reaction. . . "

annabella 02-26-2010 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 1901570)
"Whoever started that page can see all your personal stuff if you become their fan and I'm concerned people will start getting in trouble for what they put on Facebook" And she's a straight A student, Girl Scout, band geek who would probably not do or say anything that would get her in trouble, but she's smart enough to realize that it might not be the wisest thing to join that page, not knowing who has access to the info!
First of all, props to your daughter for being aware of the issue. They can't see her info because she is a fan of their page, but if they wanted to, they'd find a different way.

But to clear it up, fan page administrators can't look at the profile info of their fans. I administer a couple different pages for clients, and the only minifeed/profiles I can see are my friends. There just happens to be an extra sidebar on my account where I can update and edit the pages.

Applications you add, on the other hand...

DrPhil 02-26-2010 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1901896)
which is why I said "sometimes no reaction. . . "
I don't think that's why you said that, but...sure...good save. :)

UGAalum94 02-26-2010 11:17 PM
You're right. It probably isn't why I said it, but I wanted to make clear that I wasn't suggesting that the best reaction was always just to let comments drop.

Sometimes you need to confront them. Sometimes it's better not too. And I also agree that communicating expectations is important, but sometimes expectations and hopes aren't actually enforceable, and in cases like facebook or the internet, which may or may not fall under the school's control, it might be wise not to choose that particular battle. You don't want it to end up being the school that actually creates the disruption and that potential is there.

chitownxo 03-05-2010 01:40 PM
Here's the update/resolution of this story from the Southtown Star
http://www.southtownstar.com/neighbo...cebook.article

Glad it's not going to Court as the district cannot afford to go that route.


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