OK...I don't understand how she doesn't know why she was released when she supposedly has a sister in one of the chapters. Surely the sister was given a reason...you just don't release an in house legacy and tell the sister nothing...

I can offer no rational backup for this claim but I think the sitting sister is at a different campus, probably for the reason you mention.

Not to mention - that "sitting" sister would have voted on her sister, and been there for the voting (unless they send "sitting sisters" out of the room - even so, surely she would have wanted to know what happened)

If you want to be angry, it seems to me your anger is misdirected. No one insulted your daughter, her morals, her qualifications, her fashion sense or suggested she was only " lower tier" material. A careful reading of relevant threads here on GreekChat would show that we HATE the idea of tiers, and only wish more pnms would not think in terms of them. The sequined hose is a bit of an inside joke - search if you are really interested.

Where is the anger towards your other daughter's chapter - the one that cut the sister of a sitting sister? We can't help think that for THAT to happen there is something we are all missing. We've offered possible scenarios that might explain what happened - but you don't seem interested in them, preferring to scapegoat the chapters, or people you don't even know on the internet.

BUT I'm sure I speak for several posters here when I say you've returned the favor and given us a laugh - you've hit just about every helimom cliche', from the "I hope you don't belong to MY sorority" (and if it makes you feel any better, I hope you aren't in mine!) to "ladies - and I'm using the term loosely" type insults directed to us all, even those who have only tried to offer comfort and a possible explaination.

I hope for your daughter's sake she doesn't share in your bitterness. It's not attractive.

Although there are those girls out there who do all the thing the APhiAnna wrote about I think it is really hard for some girls to really show their personalities in the atmosphere of recruitment. Of course I think my daughter is fantastic and any sorority would have been lucky to have her. She was special in her small class of 46 but not so outstanding when you have 800 other girls to compete against!! Added to the fact that she is a very reserved girl she really struggled to let her personality show during rush. Her friends who had more outgoing personalites had no problems at all. She was very lucky and got a bid to a sorority that she loved but she is still struggling with getting to know the girls and feeling comfortable with them.

I think for most girls it probably the same, I don't think most girls that get cut heavy are just crazy party animals who have slept with half the guys on campus ( at least I hope not) I think they are probably just nice average girls like my daughter. The sad part is that I think that these girls are probably the ones that turn out to be the best sorority members. The ones that like to be the center of attention are sometimes all flash and no substance.

Okay, some one please post the link to the infamous rush thread from a year or two ago......I am too much of a luddite to know how to do this...the uh, train wreck thread with the PNM and her twin sister. That is what my comments about that "one thing" and the famous rhinestone pantyhose were referring to. Kkgdg mom, I am sorry about your daughter's experience, and I hope she finds a sorority home.

Oh, I absolutely agree. One of the things on my list was being shy, which I think is the far more likely case than any of the "slut/stuck-up/crazy story" scenarios. The problem with being shy is that it rarely makes the person disliked by sisters, but it rarely makes them memorable, and sometimes if they aren't memorable they can easily fall through the cracks.

I think the majority of girls who have bad rushes are probably shy or reserved, which is why they usually shine through COB.

Most of the "extreme" items on that list, IMHO, occur rarely. But when a mother comes on and says, "my daughter is the most outgoing person in the world, modeled for Victoria's Secret, found a cure for the common cold and spent a year living in Tibet helping the poor and got dropped by all chapters" you have to wonder. Maybe she is not as outgoing or stunning looking as the mother believes, but if she is then she probably did something very extreme to not get invited back to ALL (!) of the chapters.

I can totally see a shy girl falling through the cracks even though she is a great person. But I have a hard time believing that somebody who reportedly has such a great personality, stunning looks, great grades and extracurriculars, etc. can truly "fall through the cracks"...if all the claims are true then there is usually something else to the story.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ighlight=aspen

Ask and you shall receive.

APhiAnna I think I got so distracted by all the craziness that I forgot all your points!!!! Just like an 18 year old I only remembered the most outrageous ones!!

It's also worth noting -- it may have been said again, but worth repeating -- SOMETIMES shy can look like bored/rude. I've had PNMs drive me up the wall, because they're not giving me ANY feedback whatsoever. I talk about philanthropy, they nod. I talk about social, they nod. I talk about academics, they nod. I ask about them, they give one word answers.

Alot of times, I could tell the difference between the bored/rude ones and the really shy ones... but someone giving me that little to go on just isn't attractive. I usually wouldn't advocate dropping someone like that unless we loved everyone else in the round... but sometimes it comes down to that.

PNMs -- even if you're shy, at least try and seem interested and engaged! That could be even the small tip of the balance to get you invited back.

I wasn't going to get back on and add anything additional to this but what the heck. I know it sounds far fetched. But my daughter is everything that I presented in previous posts and more. You can actually google more than 6 pages of her accomplishments (I am not making this up), and yes her sitting sister is at another college in the same state, not only did she receive a ride to the school where she is currently a freshman, but she received several monetary humanitarian awards that she donated back to the organizations that she volunteers for... She was voted both most likely to succeed and the friendliest by her senior class. I guess the only thing that she has against her is' that she is somewhat shy when in a new situation (but what person isn't), she was a varsity cheerleader all through high school, but opted not to try out in college. So although many of you posters keept trying to find something wrong with her, there wasn't anything really glaring or another story out there. I just wanted to point these facts out. I know she would have made a contribution to any Sorority on her campus. I have to stop reading these replies though, I have better things to do with my time :)

cob is not an option as all houses made quota

If you daughter exhibited this type of attitude during recruitment, that very well could have been her downfall.

It's possible that some could still be under total. I don't know, but your daughter could ask at Greek Life.

kkgdgmom - your daughter does, in fact, sound like a wonderful young woman. Although it may not feel like it, really and truly, GC members do sympathize with your situation. We have just seen these situations occur so many times (many of us are advisors, national officers, or very involved alumni) that we know there are some very consistent scenarios that occur when a girl is cut heavily. I think if you will read carefully, most of us are guessing (and it's a guess, obviously) that the out of state factor was a biggie for your daughter and that she was, quite simply, overlooked. Mentioning the worst case scenarios (less than flattering things a pnm can do to hurt herself) is not meant to hurt your feelings. These things do happen - but we don't know a thing about your specific daughter.

I hope your daughter at the other chapter has been able to help you and your freshman daughter come to terms with what has happened. I can imagine, as a member who has been in the 'inside,' that she could be of great help in working through the disappointment and possibly figuring out what went wrong. At the very least, I am sure she understands how crazy and unpredictable rush can be. Of course, that is not much consolation at this time.

I hope that your daughter has a good year at school and finds her niche, wherever and whatever that may be.

I wonder if her daughter was as annoying as her mom is being right now.

I guess we've had our flounce post. This story just seems too perfect and convenient to be true.

I'm probably preaching to the choir here because you said youre not coming back, but for what its worth,

look, I am sure youre daughter IS wonderful. But lets look at a couple things here:

You might be wonderful too, but in some of your posts, you came off as pretty snippy....probably why we seemed so harsh in return. I bet $10 you didnt mean to be snippy at all (except for when you were going on about how you hope we're not in your sorority and how youre out of out league)
But guess what? Wires get crossed. Things come across the wrong way. When youre an awesome person and you have an accomplishment list a mile long, you immediately become intimidating, and learning how to deal with being awesome AND not scaring people at the same time is hard, and probably something that will take your daughter all of college to learn how to deal with.

And shyness. She is probably some sweet, shy, wonderful person, but during recruitment, whatever your weakness is comes out tenfold because of all the pressure, so her shyness mightve gotten the best of her, but maybe to the girls, this exceedingly gorgeous legacy/awesome girl might not seem shy, but aloof.

And lastly, this could be a possibility, I had a best friend who is a model, she is ridiculously tall and model like, she has all the right features, bright, intelligent, an excellent actress, and friendly, but she was a little shy when meeting people, and guess what? People were downright scared of her. Models, when placed next to normal everyday people, sometimes look otherwordly compared to everyone else, and to top it off, she was shy so they all thought that she was just an aloof b....talk about being misunderstood. Shes in college now at a huge Greek school, and she never got into a house either.

Your daughter can learn a valuable lesson from this, she has everything on paper, but she can learn how to take her experience and figure out how she can master making a great impression in 60 seconds. It takes being relaxed, friendly, outgoing, humble, but still letting all that awesomeness and charisma shine through.

Its three years after I went through and I STILL think about it down to the minute of my recruitment and try to figure out just WHAT I was like under all that pressure in a uncomfortable/unfamiliar situation. I was a lot different than I normally am (except for with one house....which, of course, is my house now, and the rest is history :D) What I am saying is, I learned SO much from that one weekend, and it taught me an extremely valuable lesson that has helped me all through college.

Is there any fall-rushing Big 10 school without a chapter that regularly COBs? Indiana really does shut out a lot of qualified women, but they don't have fall rush. All the fall-rushing schools that come to mind have one or more smaller chapters.
________

If she's such a flipping humanitarian, she should have joined one of the lower tier (your words not ours, cowgirl) chapters and invited all her fellow Elite models to come in and turn it around. (Wait, this was a movie, wasn't it?)

Ok...hijack

One thing that my daughter noticed when she was going to recruitment: At her school (notice I said HER school) the rush booklet said...casual first day, a little nicer the next etc. She said that the girls who didn't dress to impress (not expensively necessarily), who weren't (God forgive me for this) as physically fit, who weren't in the loop..got dropped fast.

I have read here that UT (?) has the girls dress in shorts the first day. That doesn't happen here, but knowing the inside information is vital. Some girls know it from the get go, some know it because of sisters/moms/cousins whatever.

What I am saying is: do all your research. Look online for previous years recruitment. You have a few minutes to make an impression.

I don't think this person is for real, for the reasons stated above, and also for the terrible grammar, misuse of words, etc. (unless she's just so upset she can't think straight). But, what tipped me off that this must be a faker is the Country Club comment - any person who truly is in a CC would not make such a stupid comment.

This is just a joke, has to be, it is just too over the top to be legitimate!! But, if it is real - then, from one mother of teenagers and young adults (so I qualify) to another - you need to seriously get a grip...

Is she for real???
 

That thought crossed my mind, SrMom - but you just never know. Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense. Think of some of the real posters we've had here . . . :rolleyes:

I thought troll too, at one point, but then I wasn't so sure.

I feel like it could go either way.

The longer I read GC, the more I think that all the really disagreeable or interesting posters are the sockpuppets of other users just stirring things up.

Let me start out by saying that I am new to Greek Chat. My neighbor who has two daughters that are currently in sororities, told me about Greek Chat and Greek Rank. I have a daughter who is a freshman and is very excited about recruitment. It starts next week at her school. She and her friends have been watching the television show Greek for the past two years, and my daughter is looking forward to making her campus smaller by joining a sorority. I do not know a whole lot about sororities; they did not exist at my college, nor were any of my family member’s part of a fraternity or a sorority. I am a professor at the local university which has a very active Greek system. I have seen many of the positive things associated with being a part of such groups and the negative as well.

The reason I was particularly interested in this thread is that my daughter is pretty average by most standards (she is quite remarkable to me however!). She is a good student, was a nice high school athlete – contributed but not the star, volunteered in our community and at church, and she is cute – you could say she cleans up nice. She is somewhat shy until she gets to know someone, but she is a responsible person and a loyal friend. She worked very hard this summer to earn extra money to buy a couple of new outfits for rush, the outfits were approved by my neighbor’s girls who are in sororities now. My daughter does not know anyone at her new school, which is in another state. I was hoping to find some information that would help me through a process that is very new and foreign to me.

I was disheartened by the comments of numerous posters that were directed towards KKGDGMom. Several of the posters provided sympathetic and caring thoughts on what could have occurred, however, many of you took on almost a “mob” mentality electing to dish up mean-spirited and hurtful remarks (flounce, annoying, psycho, heli, ridiculing her spelling, grammar, etc) to a woman who was most likely using this Greek Chat forum as an opportunity to express her disappointment, hurt, frustration, etc. with her daughter’s rush experience. I am sure that KKGDGMom’s experience as well as her older daughter(s) were positive or she would have not recommended rushing to her daughter. I am sure she is a mother who is very proud of her daughter (and it appears that she has a lot to be proud about – I am going to assume that the daughter was as presented) and is no doubt mystified and extremely saddened by what took place. Imagine how you might feel if a similar scenario played out during your daughter’s first few weeks of college or would have happened to you as a new freshman. Most disconcerting was the post that indicated that most of the posters were advisors, national officers, or active alumni members of sororities.

My heart goes out to all of the moms’ who have experienced the same disappointment in their lives. I would love to hear from other mom’s whose daughter(s) experienced the same thing and how they ultimately coped…perhaps that is a topic for a new thread. And for those posters who provided the snarky commentary to KKGDGMom, I would love to hear about the good things that you did for others during your pledge period. Thank you for letting me vent, I look forward to reading the follow-up posts.

I'm all for parents who read the forums or ask (reasonable) questions in order to better understand what their child is going through or help them with wardrobe questions.

I'm not all for parents who use the forums as a place to vent their frustration that their child did not receive a bid. We don't know anything about them or their kid, and can't give reasons as to why or why not a particular potential new member was bid. We can only make assumptions based on the posting style of the parent. If the parent posts like a jerk, we'll assume their kid is a jerk, plain and simple.

Regardless, we expect parents, especially those that are sorority members themselves, to be disappointed when their daughter doesn't receive a bid. Taking it to the point of disagreeing with a poster's (very thoughtful) post by posting snippy things like "you must not have kids" because the post doesn't (or actually might) apply to that one instance will not gain a parent points.

For crying out loud, get excited, disappointed, whatever - but when you take it to the point of whining about it on an internet forum, you've just earned yourself a heli-parent badge. There are much better people to vent to (like say, I don't know, actual FRIENDS). Coming here to whine makes them look like they want to "fix it" for them, or at least defend them when they either have nothing to defend themselves against or should be defending themselves. They're adults. It's hard to get over that, but parents do it all the time. In fact, there are a ton of parents on this board who did just that. They're active posters, and contribute a lot to many of our discussions.

Also, comments like "wah wah she'll at least get into her country club" make you sound like an even BIGGER ass. At that point, a parent has dug him or herself a hole, and the hole keeps getting deeper with comments like that.

If you would like us to understand your frustration, take a moment to try to understand ours - we have heli-parents "vent" on our forums ALL THE TIME. And ALL THE TIME they tell us things like "well I'm glad my daughter didn't pledge a sorority you're all bitches" because we don't think it's appropriate to whine about it here. What you're seeing, for many posters, is YEARS of frustration over this very issue.

In short - go ahead, read the forums, ask any questions you have, but when you take it to the point of posting like a jerk because your child was released from recruitment (which, if you actually DO read the forums you'll see that many of the regular posters do express disappointment because either we personally have been there before or we have friends who were released or whatever the reasons), we're going to treat you as such.

Good luck to your daughter.

So an alleged PNM & collegian mother comes on GC to post, was unpleasant to us, and we're the bad people? Honestly, that poster comes out of nowhere, and we've been here for years. I doubt that the poster was for real, but your first post on here is criticizing us, and that doesn't set the tone well for you either.

I am not a mother, but I can tell you I am a daughter and I've managed just fine without my parents interfering and being overly involved in my life. I am old enough to enter contracts, marry, vote, and there was one time in my college career where my parents called campus that didn't involve the accounting office and making a payment. There was an issue with documents and as I was out of the country my mother sent the appropriate copies as she had everything on me since I was abroad. Many of us on GC and all over the world get through life (and join sororities) without the influence or interference of our parents and are not depressed, dropping out of school, or overly dramatic. I thank my parents for raising me to handle life and make good decisions, and would be mortified if they posted about me on the internet because for some reason something didn't work out the way I want it to. Disappointment happens every day and the majority of us suck it up and deal with it.

Let me quote a Delta Tau Delta here: “Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.” The sooner young adults learn to deal with life not being sunshine and roses the sooner they can cope and deal with some of the crap a lot of us went through in college and graduate school. Many of us have been through some rough times (personal health crises, losing family members, substance abuse, and so on) and I'd rather be rejected from a sorority than go through any of that, ever, or again.

To be fair, I do think that most of the PNMs have no idea that their parents are posting their recruitment woes on the internet. KKGDGMom does not really give any info on how her daughter is actually dealing (negatively or positively) with this turn of events. We just have the mom's very emotional reaction. Hopefully, the daughter has moved on.

I am of the opinion (regarding most of the angry mom posts through the years) that they are like Serena Williams' outburst at the US Open - an emotional outburst that she is not very proud of and probably not her normal behavior. We have all had them.

We GCers probably just need to get a thicker skin. We KNOW that the mom is upset and not likely to react rationally to our advice (even though she asked for it). Each time a mom like this shows up, we get just as insulted and incensed as the mom because she is not listening to us. Seems to me that we are trying too hard to make someone understand when it becomes clear she doesn't want to.I am not denying this mom said some ugly things (The country club comment? Come on, Lady) but it doesn't change the fact that good advice was given, others will read it and learn, and, most importantly, we cannot change the way kkgdgmom feels. She is not in the mood, not now at least.

Regarding the new poster, I guess he/she is also entitled to an opinion. I am planning to ignore him/her.

I'm confused. Were any comments deleted from this thread? I see a mom with a disappointed daughter who came out shooting, and a few GCers with some matter-of-fact commentary, but the only snarkiness I see is comments about country clubs.

Just axin'.

Nope, I don't think so. It's the typical disappointed mom thread.

Mom shares her disappointment and seems to ask or challenge GCers to explain how her daughter could have gotten these results.

Users answer with reasons why girls often get cut.

Mom gets mad because there's no way these reasons apply to her daughter.

Some posters feel mom's pain; some posters snark again.

The usual.

This!! :) Maybe we should just cut and past this as the first response in the next unhappy mom thread. It will save us and her a lot of time!

My experience is the apple doesn't usually fall very far from the tree. For instance, I have no doubt that ellebud and srmom's daughters are as lovely and gracious as their mothers and their recruitment results have and will reflect that. But if, as in the case of kkgdgmom, mom is so insufferably ungracious to the point where she herself can't even see it, I doubt if she or her perfect daughter realize how they come off to others. A little self awareness goes a long way, and it seems to be something that is sorely lacking in many "perfect" pnms (and their mothers) these days.

Sadly, in my experience with girls rushing lately, the jerks tend to get bids and it really is some of the sweeties who end up dropping out* because they don't like their results. As far as I know, none of the girls I'd characterize as sweeties were absolutely cut out of rush, but when, probably because of shyness, they only get a couple of invites to the next round, they cut their losses and drop out.

In my experience, outcome doesn't always equal pnm merit.

*Not all the girl that I've know who dropped out are sweeties, but some of the least successful rushes that I know of were girls with great character who looked good on paper and were cute, but they were introverted and didn't have a chances to shine in the big recruitments.

ETA: on the other hand, these girls and their parents have the humility to not find fault with the entire system and instead just conclude it wasn't for them.

OMG, thank you!

I do know the pain of having a daughter not get the results she wanted. (I made reference to what happened in previous posts.) I will reiterate that there are rules that are unwritten. My daughter knew what to wear. She was a professional actress so she knew how to talk to strangers. But in the end, this is life and how you move on from disappointment AND success tells who you are. And despite my older daughter's past diappointment she was thrilled for her younger sister's successful recruitment.

I think that some of the disappointed moms aren't necessarily heliparents. They are hurting for their child. If you remember I had that flash during my daughter's recruitment when my daughter wasn't invited back to a favorite house. I swallowed hard and went on. And so did she. And that, I think, makes all the difference.

Interesting thread. I'm so glad this is over......what an exhausting process!! My daughter just went thru recruitment and ended up with a group she absolutely loves. On paper, she was probably just average. Decent grades, but not exceptional, some leadership positions....but not Miss Everything. What I DO think she had going for her was her goofy, laid-back attitude. Ice Water Teas were pretty superficial, I think, but from that point on some of the conversations she had were so funny. Sure, she talked about philanthropy, etc.... But she also talked about some funny stories about being a non athlete on an athletic team. Several dropped her along the way, but she ended up right where she was supposed to be.

I think average PNM's, too, have to watch their "poker face" going through rush. I was active long before the RFM days, but I think that women who said certain things about being from a high school that all went XYZ or being involved in an activity that all go ABC could be easily cut from even chapters with a lot of invites, because the chapter presumes they have their minds made up.