I wasn't even aware that a press conference was released. So my bad. Like I said... there are a lot of things that members in the Chapter didn't know were going on.

I'm sure all of your sisters are hurting right now. Maybe in the fall, some of your older members could petition to get more specifics from your HQ. There are proper channels for this type of thing. Unfortunately, when 4 year suspensions are handed out, there are usually serious issues in play. It's especially sad when there are innocent members involved. I'm sure you guys would like some answers, but you may not actually get them. Realize, also, that people responsible for the sanction may not be forthcoming at this point. I certainly wouldn't be willing to come forward and risk the wrath of an entire chapter.

Yeah something serious most have gone on. If many of us would have known what was going on we would have put a stop to it someway but, no one was aware of situations going on with certain people. I know I would have put a stop to it ASAP if I knew what was going on. But totally understandable if the people involved don't want to come forward. I'm a forgiving person and I understand people make decisions not so smart that punish other people as well. But at least in the long run everyone learns a lesson from it and become better people... or I would hope so anyway.

UNC-G
 

In all honesty, I was just putting it out there (since we no longer have a chapter link on their Greek page-unless it has been fixed) that we are on probation. Do I agree with it? Maybe not. I have no idea what happened but, unless someone was sent to the hospital with alcohol poisoning or seriously hurt, I do believe that there are times International/ National Headquarters of ANY GLO tend to consider some minor things to be "hazing." If you've ever read the book "Wrongs of Passage" (shout out to narraht for pointing out that book to me-thanks) you'll see I'm right.

In fact, as an Iraq war veteran, myself, I find the one story in this book about Phi Mu at Widener to be very offensive. The "abuse" this woman endured does not, in my eyes, warrant a diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. For those of you who haven't checked out the book, please do. It really is nothing more than a sensational piece.

I am sad when ANY Phi Mu chapter is shut down or put on probation so, please don't assume I don't care about this. I think the chapter at UNC-G is a great group of women and I hope they are able to go back, sometime soon.

I respect that you're a veteran, but PTSD doesn't require a certain level of abuse, it requires an experience that the individual finds traumatic and about a dozen other symptoms including flashbacks, avoidance, hypersensitivity to startle and feeling emotionally numbed It's one of the more complex diagnoses and the only one I found myself having to go back to the DSM-IV for to be sure I'd captured everything relevant.

TL;DR - What the book describes appears to be hazing. However saying the actions weren't "bad enough" to warrant PTSD is wrong.

Let me rephrase because I don't want to offend anyone who has ever suffered PTSD. If I have offended anyone with PTSD, I apologize. I would never say something to intentionally hurt someone else's feelings. If you read the book, which it sounds you may have, she talks about how when she transferred from Widener to University of Maryland-Baltimore County, she failed out or she had to leave school because just seeing other Phi Mus wearing Phi Mu letters bothered her so much. I'm not saying I condone hazing. Maybe it is because I spent time in the military but, some of the things in the story did not seem bad enough to warrant her reaction. The fact that we are not allowed to let new members go on scavenger hunts shows that we (Greek Life) has gotten a bit soft. Those are the things many people cherish.

als463, much respect to a war veteran.

Thank you.

It is based on the person's perception. Similarly, there are probably people in the world who might consider some of the things that als463 saw/experienced in Iraq to be of minimal impact in comparison to the things they have seen/experienced.

She said it bothered her to see Phi Mus wearing letters but was that the crux of her PTSD?

A lot of Greeks say that Greek Life has gotten a bit soft but (as I've probably said in a couple of threads today :p) it got soft for what was considered a good reason. For every cherished and harmless scavenger hunt, there are chapters that will have a scavenger hunt with an added twist that was added for a number of potentially harmful reasons.

I scanned the pages that described her experience. That kind of reaction to things that remind someone of the abuse is actually really common. Odds are walking up behind her and tapping her on the shoulder would make her jump a mile. It's called being hyperalert and hypersensitve to triggers and these would both indicated PTSD. She experienced some pretty consistent emotional abuse along with some physical abuse it seems.

I suspect being in the military has skewed your perception a bit, and that's fine. But I wouldn't discount the abuse she experienced, which was over her entire pledge period, as "not bad enough." She even acknowledges that none of it sounds that bad individually, but that it was cumulative.

I don't disagree that the no-scavenger hunts rule is silly on the face of it, but that's not what happened here. (And scavenger hunts have been used to haze but that's another story.) Sororities aren't supposed to toughen you up and put you through hell. At least, that's not in anything I ever learned.

No, there were other symptoms described in the book, she was having flashbacks and night terrors as well as hyperalertness, and avoiding talking about/being around triggers. I could probably diagnose from the symptoms provided (not that I would.)

And co-sign your scavenger hunt comment.

What is also difficult for many people to understand with PTSD is that people who suffer with this disorder have IRRATIONAL responses to stimuli. What als463 probably sees as little instigation to promote a response, ie. seeing women walk around in sorority letter shirts, produces a significant response in the patient. No, it is not rational, but that is part of the disorder. Her mind is reliving the past experience every time she sees those shirts just like it's happening right then and there not six months or a year prior. If she was able to control it, she wouldn't have the diagnosis.

Geez, I wondered how we got on the subject of PTSD.

Well, someone putting quotes around "abuse" and completely misrepresenting the disorder makes the fingers start typing on their own. I just put them on the keyboard and let'm go.

Thank you for that explaination, Dr. Angel.

It's certainly not my specialty, but it always makes me SMH when people try to apply normal brain function to abnormal brain function. And, everybody is different. My husband is deathly afraid of heights. I am completely indifferent. He really cannot control it. When we went to the top of the Tokyo Tower, I thought he was going to pass out. He turned into a limp noodle. It was kind of funny, although I do feel a little sorry for him. He is so afraid, even though cognitively he knows that he is perfectly safe.

i totally agree. a lot of members were also left out of the loop, and i (also as a fellow sister) don't appreciate your "help" by putting this on the internet to see. so next time you feel like "helping" someone, then you can think about what if it was YOUR sorority and then maybe you will rethink your decision. thanks.

btw i am not directing this at sirfie, i am directing at the person she was replying to. thanks.

Um newsflash for you, but Phi Mu IS her sorority.

just wanted to put ya'lls minds at ease, and yes. scavenger hunts were brought up and also rampant misuse of social media was brought up about a comment on someones picture. now none of this was legit because it was voluntary on each hunt and the charges were brought up from some bitter members who had dropped earlier in the year for reasons that were not hazing. as a semi-new member i feel very cheated and upset that i can't live out my phi mu experience fully. i know that you guys are worried, but don't be because we know that it takes more than a piece of paper to make us a sisterhood. and although they took our charter, we are stronger now than we have been in a long time. ps: i am still saddened, but i realize that phi mu is a big part of my life, and always has been, and will continue to be. les soeurs fideles.

um then newsflash for you, then if she was a true phi mu, then she would be trying to help us and not hurt us. after all we are sisters and should be treated with respect. that was not respect and i sense bitterness from you too. and if her chapter went down, then i would hope that she would want love and support also. after all we are supposed to be molding our lives by our three ideals LOVE HONOR AND TRUTH right?

Bitterness from me? Wtf? What do I have to be bitter about? And how did she hurt you by posting what appears to be an official press release from Phi Mu Fraternity?

She's still a Phi Mu.

And the bolded.. just uncalled for.

oops. on the real, i didn't mean to bold the "i sense bitterness from you too" my bad. but seriously, that wasn't an official press release. that was sent in an email to our listserve. and to be honest, it still stings a lot, when it is all over the internet and people are bad mouthing us for something that we DIDN'T DO. now i'm sorry if i offended, but to be real we are all still getting over it and would appreciate it if people would stay out of our business.

You didn't bold it, I did. And it was uncalled for directed at Vito.

We have no way to know what was done or not done unless the information is provided. You don't actually sound like you're "getting over it." But the only people who keep bringing it up in this thread are people who post about how they don't want it brought up anymore.

Okay.

The last two pages of this thread are...interesting.

^^ yeah they're all talking about how we should stop talking about something only they are talking about.

Anyone remember me? Yeah, this is my chapter. And I know far more about this particular situation than many of the people posting in the thread, but maybe in my adulthood I've lost some of my righteous indignation.

The statement that was originally posted WAS from a national press release, Gamma Chis. Keep in mind also that National Convention was this summer. Phi Mus from all over the country have at least gotten this information about why the chapter was shut down.

I was wondering when the GCers would pick up on this whole "rampant misuse of social media" thing. It seems to me that it has the potential to blow the shutters right off of what we normally think of as being suspension-worthy offenses. The details of this particular case have been grossly exaggerated, in my opinion. However, what's done is done- and we have 4 years to consider what could have been done differently.

To clarify, someone mentioned the wording of the press release. The chapter was suspended by the University, and then subsequently Phi Mu. The accusers in question were former members who felt harrassed by a small group of individuals. Although the individuals in question were also punished with their own student conduct hearings, the University punished the entire chapter. Because Phi Mu is a guest of UNCG, they obviously chose to go along with the University decision, which is pretty common. And yes, the hazing incidents primarily refer to scavenger hunts. It's the "rampant misuse of social media", and harassment of former members, that caused the chapter to be shut down. Any Phi Mus who have any further questions may direct them to me, if you'd like, in PM.

That was me. :) Thanks for clearing it up, I just thought the way it was worded was rather bass-ackwards.

http://www.wmbfnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=12969243

Zeta Phi Beta suspended for five years at Coastal Carolina.

Kevin, based on the update report in the Syracuse student paper (see below), I guess you can add another to your list of “RMF closures.” See

http://www.dailyorange.com/news/frat...lose-1.1951581

Excerpts from ^:

. . . The six-member National Council voted unanimously to revoke the chapter's charter Friday, said Janine Grover, marketing and communications director for A Chi O National Headquarters. There is a chance for the chapter to recolonize at SU but not until after a significant period of time, Grover said.

"There were behaviors that were unhealthy for the chapter," Grover said. Grover could not go into specifics because of the National Headquarters privacy policy.

For the past year, National Headquarters has been working with SU's chapter, discussing multiple issues the headquarters had with the Lambda chapter, said Grover of National Headquarters.

The Lambda chapter was put on probation last spring for "severe risk management violations," according to the letter to alumnae. National Headquarters' staff members made multiple visits to the SU chapter and worked to implement a plan for improvement, including hiring a resident adviser to live in the house.

But the chapter continued to violate the terms of the probation and university policies, according to the letter.

"Closing a chapter is the hardest decision a National Council has to make, and we would never reach that decision lightly," Grady, the national president, said in the letter. "At this time, we simply don't believe we can successfully bring this chapter back to health given the risk management policy violations involved and the campus culture that does not support a positive Alpha Chi Omega experience." . . .


The Alpha chi Omega press release is posted on their HQ site:

http://www.alphachiomega.org/uploade...%20Release.pdf
Excerpt:

[I[FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Indianapolis, IN – Alpha Chi Omega’s National Council voted unanimously to close its Lambda chapter at Syracuse University, effective immediately. The decision came as a result of unresolved risk management violations. Current collegiate members were granted alumna status.

“Closing a chapter is the hardest decision a National Council has to make, and we would never reach that decision lightly.” stated Marsha Grady, National President. “That said, we have clear standards and expectations for members of this organization. In this situation, despite our clearly communicated expectations and significant resources devoted to changing chapter culture, this chapter has failed to live up to Alpha Chi Omega standards.” . . . [/I]

Hi Kevin. For your list, I guess.

Beta Theta Pi is closing its chapter at Ohio University (Athens OH). Alcohol and other policy violations are cited as among the reasons. See

http://thepost.ohiou.edu/main.asp?Se...rticleID=33541

“Oxford, Ohio - February 1 - Beta Theta Pi's Board of Trustees, in collaboration with OU Beta alumni leaders and university officials, announced tonight the closure of its Beta Kappa Chapter at Ohio University. Founded on the Athens campus in 1841, the chapter currently posts 47 undergraduates, including 37 initiated and 10 pledge members. . . .”

Upate on Alpha Chi Omega closure at Syracuse:

http://www.dailyorange.com/news/frat...sure-1.1998273

So I visited the Save the Lambdas Tumblr site mentioned in the article.

I can understand the desire to reach out and get others to voice their support of Lambda Chapter. Some of the posts were heartfelt and emotional pleading with HQ to reconsider. But some really had some private laundry.

I don't know guys. If your chapter's on the verge of closing, and you want to see it re-open someday, maybe it's best not to take your fight to the internet?

Well, I personally find it very odd that a national president granted (via phone of course, but still) what appears to be a private interview with a student newspaper. It comes off as being unsure of the decision that was made and trying to plead your case that you did the proper thing.

Of course, if the newspaper twisted what are basically press releases and such, I take it back.

Don't even get me started on the title of that article.

No one at HQ or on the National Council is unsure about the decision to close the chapter. I don't know where the quotes originated, phone or press release, or some other source. The reporting by the Daily Orange and the misguided online efforts of some collegians and alumnae are disturbing including the misstatement of facts by those just mentioned.

Bottom line - all members are accountable for their actions, upholding our values and following policy.

Hi Kevin.

I think this news has been reflected on irishpipes' and Lane_Sig's lists, but maybe not on the one in this thread?

http://m.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs....emplate=wapart

Reportedly Delta Phi Epsilon has closed its (now former) chapter at SUNY - New Paltz, effective April 13.

Kind of old news, but Sigma Phi Epsilon was suspended last year at the University of Central Arkansas for a number of things that happened within the time span of two weeks. Those things are said to have been- Underage drinking, a fraternity brawl with Sigma Tau Gamma, and an alleged rape case.

This suspension is set to be lifted at the beginning of the fall 2012 semester.

Hi Kevin,

News from Montclair State, accoring to their student paper

http://www.themontclarion.org/archives/3739700

Excerpts from ^^:

10-6-2011
TKE banned from campus for alleged hazing incident at the start of the year
- By Joseph Lisnow,*Assistant*News

The issue of hazing has hit Montclair State University, as two students from the Tau Kappa Epsilon (TKE) fraternity were arrested after it was reported that they had caused “mental and physical punishments” to one of their pledges at the start of the calendar year.

. . . The pledge suffered a cut on his elbow that became infected and required surgery, the police report stated.

. . . TKE is no longer affiliated with Montclair State University . . . The decision to remove the organization from campus was made by Dr. Karen Pennington, vice president for Student Development and Campus Life.
. . .

Cornell: TKE May Lose Recognition
Hey Kevin and others:

Cornell's TKE chapter may lose recognition. See article on student paper’s site:

http://www.cornellsun.com/section/ne...se-recognition

There’s an interesting allegation, mentioned in the article, that members of the former SAE chapter at Cornell have been operating through TKE. Among other things, sixteen ex-pledges of SAE have pledged TKE. It all sounds quite complex.

Excerpt from article ^^ :

January 6, 2012
By Jeff Stein

“Cornell will revoke its recognition of Tau Kappa Epsilon following reports of an alcohol-related hospitalization of a freshman unless the fraternity succeeds in its appeal of the decision, according to multiple sources. . . “

Allegations put fraternity on suspension

February 23rd, 2012 | Published in Greek Life, News, Scene


A Creighton fraternity has been suspended following allegations of underage alcohol access and hazing of members at fraternity functions.
Pi Kappa Alpha were notified via email that these allegations had been brought against them. The allegations in questions are under investigation and until it is complete the fraternity is under suspension.....


http://www.creightonian.com/?p=4344

the article continues after the link