cosign!
 

i agree with your comments! i do not see a problem with this. in maryland/dc/va it is a requirement of highschool students.

i don't see why anyone would have a problem with paying it forward and giving back to people that are in need. serving in the military is not the only way you can demonstrate patriotism.

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middle/high school get the benefit of helping someone. the get the benefit of doing something that will positively impact their lives. they will get the benefit of looking outside of their situation to have a more open position on life. they also have the benefit of putting this service on their resumes, applications for colleges and share their experiences with kids behind them.

if young people can sit on the phone, focus on trivial things then they can serve.

college student will probably receive some financial benefit from serving. whether its a stipend or a discount on tuition. i would think that existing programs like americorps may receive additional funding to help as many people as possible.

i think your questions are legitimate. but my position is that you have the right to exert your viewpoint on these issues and you can wait and see what the obama administration has to offer. whether you agree with him or not, the one thing that can't be disputed is that he is intelligent and has a strong command of the issues like this one. also, as much as it was laughed at, he was a community organizer and comes with a specific knowledge about how to effectively operate programs that seek to serve the community.

at some point all of us have had to put their life in the hands of someone they dont trust. what does that have to do with where we could be heading going forward?

the best you can do is to be as prepared as you can, do your part, stay aware and the rest you leave to your faith (if that is what you believe) or to chance.

I thought that it was only $4000 for poor kids? I do well over 100 hours/year anyway, this would make me very happy.

didn't y'all know, effective Jan 21, 2009, all white people will have to do 40 years of slavery. Enjoy the cotton fields.....

Well, who knows how it will turn out? Personally, I have a hard time imagining that what this country needs is a program to give 4,000 dollar tax credit to the parents of upper class college kids who are willing to turn in forms logging their Dance Marathon hours.

Honestly, I don't really see this going anywhere until the economy improves a lot, unless it's simply a requirement for documented community service added to existing tax credits for higher ed.

Will you hush!?!?!!

They haven't finalized the press release yet!

Can we just have our ancestors do it?

Maybe something about potato famines or coal mines and company stores?

Enjoy those greens... LOL...

I still can only think about the logistical nightmare it would be. Especially if there are few community organizations where you live and they slam the door on your face unless you have nepotism-like connections.

Thank you. Your post speaks volumes when students in this country are now less likely to graduate than their parents. Shouldn't we worry about closing the educational gaps in our system, stop promoting those who don't deserve to go to the next grade, and ensure that students actually receive a viable education so that when they graduate they can do more than work the fry machine at the local burger joint?

I really would like it if politicians would actually collaborate and listen to educators and couselors instead of making new crap up when we still haven't gotten everyone up to snuff.

I also agree with Soror AKA_Monet. Some folks in here are making it seem as though community service is the worst thing in the world!

I think that community service should be mandatory and I think that there is a great need for it in almost every community. I'm not sure where most of you grew up, but I know that there is a need for a lot of help within the community where I'm from. As long as there are people in need in this country, there will always be room for volunteers. Soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, etc. They could even spend an extra hour at school twice a week and plant flowers, scrape gum off of desks, clean graffiti off lockers, and other things that can help beautify. There is ALWAYS something to be done.

Yes, teens lie, but that's why there should be (and probably will be) a system of checks and balances. It's very simple to contact the org. that the student alleges he/she spent time with and find out. Hell, I'd sign up for that job in the Obama administration! (I'm sure there was at least one person that's asking "Who's really going to do that?") I'd be a phone-calling, fact-checking chica! If our (MINE included) tax dollars are going toward funding something and it would take me volunteering my time to check up on some other folks, I'd do it.

Lastly, while I understand that someone stated more time should be dedicated to helping students improve grades (and I agree with the sentiment), I also think that community service will serve to help with the problem also. Students may have to opportunity to volunteer with people and orgs. that will help them see life from a different perspective. For me, volunteering on campaigns helped me to gain focus in pursuing a career in law and (eventually) politics. Students can volunteer at vets, reading academies, libraries, hospitals, etc. and gain more insight into what it takes to pursue their dream careers. They may be around positive role models that they might not otherwise have the opportunity to see.

^^^Veterans alone need help. I was told by a worker at the VA saying they are severely understaffed and other veterans from previous wars are aging and need more assistance... And let us not forget about the mental health debilitation these vets face.

Personally, if they serve this country and fight for it, they DESERVE to get all the healthcare they need!!!

I just remembered another program that our schools do. The marching band students who choose to can do kindergarten mentoring. They are trained in how to handle the kids, how to read to them, how to do crafts with them, etc. and meet with their kindergarteners once a week after school to serve as their mentors. It's fun for the high school kids and fun for the 5 year olds. My daughter is doing that this year too.

Logistical nightmare? Please. The school were I previously taught had around 3,000 kids. All managed to complete their 50 hours easily and it was far from a logistical nightmare. Heres how it went: Kids get paper. Kids have paper signed by person supervising their community service hours. Kids hand in paper to homeroom teacher. Homeroom teacher enters into a spreadsheet. Community service representative for the grade level removed the kid's name from the list when service was complete. Done.

Currently, I'm teaching in a international baccalaureate school and part of the program requires kids to do 150 hours of CAS (creativity, action, service) over two years. There are only 300 kids in the program, but the same basic method as above applies. No problems.

Community service is great for kids, particuarly those who are high risk. I can't even count the number of kids who were on their way to dropping out, joining gangs, or worse who after their required "forced labor" turned their lives around and became productive students and members of society.

Encouraging people to volunteer is one thing. Requiring it is another story. Many of us (raises hand) are just not that good at locating and finding the places to volunteer at. There may be a transportation issue. Or a family issue. It is probably easier here in the USA, but in my old hometown it would have been a complete and total nightmare. I remember in my secondary school there was an excess of tutors and a dearth of pupils. I remember how tough it was at times to complete hours. I remember one time they called me wanting to get me to volunteer at the girls orphanage- I was home alone and there were no cars (nor did I have a license), yet they persisted. Another time they wanted me to cancel a dental appointment with little notice so that I could attend some service project- I said no.

This whole idea just makes me shudder. I'm pretty sure it would go smoother here where I now live given the opportunities- but back there given people's attitudes and the bureaucracy and disorganization and rampant nepotism, it would have been a complete and total catastrophe.

I believe the people here who are against mandatory community service don’t think it’s a bad thing (otherwise I don’t think they’d be Greek!). Personally, I don’t think that it should be MANDATORY right now when there haven’t been any mass efforts to include community service in the national educational system up to this point. And while it might be completely feasible for one community to have programs like this, for another, the schools have books that haven’t been updated since the first President Bush was in office. Why put money toward an extra program when they’re not even up-to-date with the basics?

If you want to include community service in the process of learning, why not have community service-based field trips? Food drives? Small daily contributions from students to a local charity? A “buddy system” where freshmen are paired with upperclassmen who guide them through their first year at school?

Some students have so many extra-curriculars that they already have too much going on. Some students aren’t able to venture too far from home after school because of transportation issues. Some students are already too unmotivated to do school work. There are numerous reasons why making community service mandatory on a national level might not be the best idea right now.

And if you really want to get technical, the national government can’t make programs like this mandatory. They shouldn’t have a hand in education at all, but that’s a different argument for another day.

If you want to provide the option and offer incentives, I think that sounds like a marvelous idea. With the ‘$4000/100 hours community service’ program, you could also offer this to high school students in order to help them pay for college. Or you could have a plan where 100 hours in high school will get you $3000, and an additional 50 hours in college will get you another $1000. Whatever it happens to be, it doesn’t much matter… it should be an OPTION.

Because I know that I’d probably be one of those extremely busy high school kids adding on a few extra hours for each activity I did, since I can pretty much guarantee that there wouldn’t be a whole lot of people like RedefinedDiva to check up on my progress.

Which is why a lot of juvenile rehabilitation/correction programs use community service in this manner. The best way to learn responsibility is to be responsible for someone else (I may have posted this before...can't remember).

That's where the schools come in. As I stated previously, students can dedicate hours to helping to beautify the campus. High school students can also volunteer at the primary/elementary school(s) in the area to help with reading, cleaning, after-school care, etc. Students can also help their elderly/disabled neighbors care for their lawns, fold clothes, carrying groceries, etc.

There are SEVERAL things that can be considered community service which would not require travel outside of the neighborhood or school district.

I agree, and especially like what's bolded. I wish people would just stop with all the beating around the bush and say what's really on their minds. This passive aggressive crap is for the birds, especially when everybody knows what's really being said, anyway. :rolleyes:

That doesn't mean he flip flopped. The first draft could have been put up prematurely before it was given final approval, or something. Geez, some of you act like Obama doesn't have people (who make mistakes) working for him. He's not doing all of this stuff himself. Get real. Please.

That was hilarious!!

Accounts Receivable (black guy): You're gonna have to wear a dashiki now. Do you know what a dashiki is?
Accounts Payable (white guy): Some kind of weird mustache (crying)
Accounts Receivable: Yeah, whatever scares you the most.

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day. :cool:

Pay her no attention. She's still a little upset because a house fell on her sister.

You always have the best lines! LOL :D

Wow are you serious? That sucks!! Although I will say, if my dad's experiences at VA are like other people's experiences at other VA's then having health benefits at VA isn't anything to want.

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

When he had his back & neck surgery, he was having complications and so he tried to call the doctor. But the doctor had up & left for a "vacation" in Europe. The doctor didn't come back for 3 months, yet the whole time my dad was in pain & no other VA doctor would see him.

The whole VA system needs to be reworked.

I'm so sorry to hear that! :( I can imagine it's not only painful but frustrating/infuriating.

As usual, it sounds like folks want to cut corners after you all had to deal with some stuff. Be it on the ground, air or on the ocean. No matter, if you are hurt due to your service, you need commensurate healthcare... That's my opinion.

The VA is a hot ghetto mess... My uncle who did 2 tours in 'Nam, got Agent Oranged and now has mesothelioma... He was a bomb tech--so some of that was VX and Napalm...

Part of the problem is a lack of qualified healthcare personnel. No hospital has enough qualified personnel in the US. Not enough doctors, not enough nurses, not enough CNA's, not enough PA-C, not enough people, period...

And don't ask about mental health care. Hopefully folks don't hurt themselves or loved ones too badly...

The reason why is because of severe restrictions into who is accepted into healthcare school and costs to attend these schools. Believe me, the UW med school has asked me repeatedly to apply and I just do NOT want to do it because I just cannot be $150K+ more in debt. What for--I'm 40 years old? Why?

Have you questioned this? If my mother remembers correctly, he served 22 months - 10 in combat - and has received care at a VA, and already has "reservations" in the local National Cemetery.

It depends not only on the length of time you spend in service, but your disability rating, and your category.

After 22 military years, I am 10% "disabled" and among the lowest categories for service at VA facilities -- in essence, cannot be seen. Someone who serves less time, but is injured severely, or has a "service-connected" disability of some percentage is higher on the priority list. Except for the highest priority cases, everyone is seen on a space-available basis. The limited appointments and beds go to the highest priority.

For some crazy reason, I think it also depends on when they served? I don't think my father served longer than a year and a half, but he was in Southeast Asia during the late 60s. That said, he has cancer related to Agent Orange and sees a VA doctor for some things, and uses his civilian doctor for non AO-related things, as well as a second opinion. He's had a pretty good experience with our local clinic, but it's also in a major military area, so maybe that helps.

I do know that, depending on when you served, you only have to have had 90 days of active duty service to qualify for a VA loan.

Change You Can't Click On

After one big change, Obama makes a few smaller changes to his Web site.

Now that the election is over, it's time to break some campaign promises! Because of the Web's constant hunger for new information, President-elect Barack Obama is in a uniquely difficult spot. He's issued and revised so many white papers and policy proposals that if he so much as sneezes the wrong way, he risks reversing something published on his campaign Web site.......

http://www.slate.com/id/2204041/?from=rss

Forget all this!

PUPPIES

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

^^^^Very well said AGDee. I agree with you.

Puppies make everything better!:D

Yeah, this is fair and I mostly agree, but you're kind of presenting a false dilemma when you conflate "adjusting to new information" and "admitting mistakes" - in specific, there are definite and decided advantages to the President (nearly) never admitting a "mistake" in those precise terms while in office, while there are few tangible benefits to a mea culpa speech while in office.

Rigidity is the sign of a small mind, but the sign of flexibility (especially for the President) is certainly not apology. It's neither necessary nor sufficient. In that way, it's kind of a crappy standard to hold Bush to - I wouldn't expect Obama to go "whoops, some of my programs suck and/or are infeasible, time to back off those campaign promises - sorry!"

What new information do you think Obama has gotten that changed his mind?

I think it's hard to make the case that these changes are really based on information that he didn't know before. It just sounded better to express it one way for the campaign, but it's now unrealistic to deliver on. It happens every campaign, so I'm not trying to single Obama out. But I don't think we should praise it as a virtue in his case either.

Economic crisis? For most of the campaign we weren't in an "economic crisis". That could drastically change any person's mind. The only way it's not a flip-flop is if there is new information. If there is no new information then its just a flip-flop, but if there is new information it is a valid adjustment/ change in position.