Ah. That complicates things...

Agreed. There's absolutely a set protocol that is to be followed in the request to a GLO for a charter. Going about things the way the are is like putting the cart before the horse. It's not likely to do them any favors. Frankly I'd be very surprised if DU-IHQ actually granted them any kind of recognized status.

Correction Sae-alumnus ,we are not students anymore when we established DU in Phil.
 

I am a 2000 graduate of BS Geology and the others are same with my course and Engineering courses.We establish the fraternity in the year 2004 and we do have respective jobs already when we have decided to expand Delta Upsilon.

In 2001 I was already started working abroad and same with my brothers who have decided to migrate in other countries.I am a former president of my fraternities during college way back 1996-2000.And I know a lot with regards to registration of fraternities in universities that is why in 2004 we come up to a decision to try to ask for approval to Delta Upsilon in North America if they will allow us to expand thier fraternity to our country.

What encourage us before to establish and expand Delta Upsilon in the Philippines was that there are two alumni from Alberta and Miami chapter that had responded our emails and advice us to solidify the fraternity and as well as send the list of members and photos to the IHQ for reference.Due to this we decided to solidify it by making the fraternity registered to Silliman University (www.su.edu.ph) or the first chapter where Delta Upsilon was expanded.

But our application wasn`t consistent for the reason that we do also want our future to be stable so we migrate again to other countries for the good of our carrrier.But last year we do finalize our application for recognition cause the fraternity has been expanding to other parts of the country and in fact we do have 6-7 active chapters now.

We don`t want to expect that we will be recognize but at least we did our best to be affiliated to the International.The alumni association of Delta Upsilon in the Philippines and also the undergraduates chapters are ready for whatever it may takes regarding our affiliation.We will accept it.

Delta Gamma Beta has nothing to do with DU Philippines
 

I`m sorry I was thinking that was the list of the SEC Philippines.Anyway Delta Gamma Beta is totally not connected with the Delta Upsilon.They are a different organization.They don`n apply for any kind of affiliation cause Delta Gamma Beta in the Philippines is quite a strong and stable fraternity already.Kindly edit that one cause I think they will react with that one cause I have some friends who are members of that fraternity.

About the list of fraternities registered in SEC Philippines,I will send it to you after I could email the agency in the Philippines.As of now I can`t register Delta Upsilon in the Securities and Exchange Commission in the Philippines cause they need legal documents that comes from the IHQ to register Delta Upsilon in the said agency.

I know that I can check for fraternities/sororities being reserved or registered one by one at the SEC page http://iregister.sec.gov.ph/MainServlet?param=search, but I don't know if there is a more efficient way.

Today's the day. I wonder how soon we'll have an answer? Any DUs in contact with HQ to be able to find out?

Approve or Disapprove it`s fine with us
 

We are ready for whatever it may takes as I`ve said before ,we will accept and respect the decision of the Board.At least we try our best and we are well prepare for the outcome of the meeting.

Just want to thank all those DU`s who are members of these greekchat forum for not even reacting nor commenting on whatever we have posted here.Thanks to Kyle of Iowa chapter for accepting our affiliation to the IHQ and even posted in this greekchat forum the forwarded letter being sent to thier chapter during the Board of Director Meeting last October 24-26 ,2008 regarding our application for recognition.

If ever we will be approve or disapprove , all I could say is, In behalf of the Delta Upsilon in the Philippines we are grateful to be a part (even if not official due to unchartered) of this fraternity but our existence depends on the final decision of the Board and our brotherhood now lies on the result of the meeting starting today ,and to all North American DU`s and as well in Canada ,just want to thank you all for your consideration and as well as repecting our application to be a recognize chapter.

Thank to you all cause I don`t know if maybe this is my last day of posting if ever we will be disapprove.Thanks again an best regards to all!!!

Delta Upsilon in Silliman University Chapter in the Philippines
 

Delta Upsilon`s first chapter in the Philippines was in Silliman University wherein its one of the top schools in the Philippines.

Here is the complete data :
http://www.philippinenews.com/article.php?id=1503

http://www.filipinasoul.com/the-phil...-universities/

i've been with IHQ all weekend. 8th - 11th for convention in Indy. our UGAB only briefly mentioned the topic in passing but it didnt seem like it was a big item to talk about on the agenda. Honestly, i think the issue was hardly discussed seeing as how all of IHQ was busy running our Winter Conference. i heard the topic tabled to the 16th. but this is all info i've just overheard, nothing official.

Are we disapprove?
 

Ruf are we disapprove?If ever you have any idea please let me know cause am also waiting for the email of the exec director Justin Kirk ,if we will be disapprove its fine with us we will respect the decision of the Board.

Although all of us will be sadden but we will accept the truth that it is not easy to apply for recognition.

Thanks for the infos you posted here ,please do post always if ever you have new news on our affiliation.

no official news. just gossip, rumors and hearsay

Any updates?

not that i'm aware of.

DU in the Phillipines thread...
 

Greetings all,

I've been reading the DU in the Phillipines thread, and thought I would add some interesting information.

Though I'm not one to pass judgement, I thought I'd share with you what would hypothetically happen if something like this happened in Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Fraternity, a Men's Music Fraternity in the USA of which I am a proud brother. Please don't mistake this as passing judgement on anything going on - just wanted to share with you would would probably happen if something like this happened with Sinfonia.

First and Foremost colonization and chartering of chapter of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia can only be done through the consent and approval of the National Fraternity. This is regardless of geography, be it in Alaska, Hawaii, or 10 minutes from our HQ in Indiana.

Any entity that uses our name and rituals without the approval of the fraternity would probably receive a stop and desist communication from our National HQ/Officers, followed by an investigation by the fraternity, and possible legal action. Especially if a group got fed up with waiting and found some way to be initiated anyway - this is a violation of many rules and regulations that the fraternity has and would be cause for the disbandment of the group looking to join the fraternity.

Any collegiate group that wants to form a chapter of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia must go through the colonization process. Only collegiate chapters are authorized to initiate members; this is strictly enforced as alumni associations nor colonies can not initiate. When a colony becomes a chapter they are initiated by another collegiate chapter (a "big brother" chapter). Only active, chartered chapters in good standing with the fraternity may initiate new members.

This is our colonization process:
http://www.sinfonia.org/Resources/Gu...%20Program.pdf

(FYI - I am a president of an alumni association and have served Sinfonia in many different leadership positions.)

I hope this was informative and helpful. Please keep in mind that this is only my best guess what would happen if my fraternity was presented with the same issues as faced by Delta Upsilon. I hope everything is resolved in a peaceful and logical manner.

Fraternally,
Rich L.
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Fraternity of America (www.sinfonia.org)
President, NYCAA
Gamma Alpha '92

Hey Rich, and welcome to GreekChat!

I get what you're saying in the quoted part above. The problem is that when, as here, the group in question is in another country (on the other side of the world, no less), realistically, from a legal and financial standpoint, a fraternity's options to investigate and take legal action are going to be very limited.

Fraternally,

And trying to get that legal action enforced in the Philippines, especially if the group isn't a business registered with the Philippine SEC gets somewhat difficult.

There have been many different reactions from USA Greek Letter Organizations to groups with the same name in the Philippines. On the one hand, you have Alpha Sigma Phi, where eventually they accepted the group in the Philippines as a separate national organization as a separate International Umbrella, on the other hand you have Phi Beta Kappa where the USA organizations is going through the effort to sue in the Philippines. (I think Phi Beta Kappa is into the second year of the effort).

There are several groups in the middle including Delta Upsilon(Phil), Alpha Tau Omega(Phil) and Sigma Alpha Epsilon(Phil). Delta Upsilon(Phil) is attempting to affiliate. Alpha Tau Omega(Phil) and Sigma Alpha Epsilon(Phil) seem to be using symbols that are derived from those of the US groups. Whether the Philippine National approves of that, I don't know. Not sure what the situation is with Sigma Nu...

For Alpha Phi Omega, the effort in the Philippines has been approved by the US group since the year it started.

Randy

major sticking point...
 

Thanks for the information!

The only thing that I believe is the major sticking point, and one that sort of confuses me, is the fact that DU in the Phillippines did not optain approval from the International Fraternity, nor go through a colony process. The chartering of a chapter, much less initiating members, without the approval of that fraternity's national hq is grounds for expulsion in most if not all fraternities. Its illegal use of all the fraternities symbols, rituals, materials, etc...

Bear in mind I only speak from my experience in Sinfonia and what I know of the U.S. greek system. Any interest group, regardless of location or geography or country, IMHO must follow the rules of that organization in order to be a legal entity and arm of that group. Doesn't matter if its the U.S., Canada, Japan, Phillippines, etc... you must follow the proper procedures to be first a colony and then a chapter.

My 2 cents.
Rich

which is why they're appealing for affiliation. they recognize they are acting independently. they just went about becoming DU's the wrong way and are trying to find a way to rectify it.

Youth of the Philippine group helps as well...
 

Delta Upsilon of the Philippines is a relatively young group as well (founded June 22, 2004).

If Delta Upsilon of North America were to require as part of legal affiliation (either as a separate "National" or as part of them) that all members in the Philippines by someone already in Delta Upsilon and was willing to help make that happen, I think it could be made to work. This could be done by either initiating some of the DU-Phil alumni in North America or by having a group from the DU North America National Board/National go over to the Philippines.

From a quick scan of the ritual, it appears that it could be done with only 3 members of DU-Phil being properly initiated, but that's just reading it. (And I'm sure it would be better if done by more)

Also, I notice that the ritual mentions the United States and Canada specifically, DU may actually have to change their ritual to properly sew up all of the loose ends... :confused:

I think the legality can get a little sticky. Yes, names, coats-of-arms and the like are registered trademarks, and fraternities have the ability to take action for the unauthorized use of them. That gets much more complicated, and in some cases near impossible, though, when the unauthorized use is not in the United States.

Generic symbols typically are not protected. We, for example, could not trademark a simple lyre or triangle, although a specific design of such a symbol (such as the lyre in our visual identity) can be trademarked.

As for rituals, an interesting question is raised. Will the typical fraternity try to take any kind of legal action, since doing so would require the fraternity to go into court and prove the unauthorized use of the ritual? Doing so would almost certainly require the complaining fraternity to introduce its ritual into evidence.

Which reiterates what I think may be an important factor here -- DU is not a typical fraternity where ritual is concerned. Its ritual has always been open; non-secrecy was one of the founding principles of DU. The DU can be found on their national website. I wonder if that made it an easier target for the group in the Phillipines.

I'll admit that as I've read about these orgs in the Phillipines, I've wondered, "How would we do if it were us?" Unfortunately, I think that an equally important question is "What could we do?"

I think Phi Beta Kappa may have it easier then in the law suit. If I remember my Fraternity history correctly, the Phi Beta Kappa ritual was revealed sometime before 1820 and as such is at about the same level of privacy as Delta Upsilon.

Symbols get tricky, what do you do if the National Organization in the Philippines doesn't officially use it, but all kinds of youtube videos and Friends pages of the Philippines group do use it (or something similar), which I *think* is the situation for SAE.

I would tend to think that lawsuits would go after the public parts of the Fraternity in the Philippines, use of symbols, claims that they are part of the USA group etc.

To me there are three questions that need to be answered about a Group in the Philippines with the same name as that of one in the United States before deciding what action to take.

1) Are members of this Group claiming to actually be members of the Fraternity in the United States?

2) If no, Are the members of this Group using symbols, songs and other related indicators of the North American Group as part of their activities

3) If the first two are no, Are the groups of the same or similar "types" in terms of limitations on their membership for example (only engineers for example).

If a group started in the Philippines called Phi Mu Alpha that was limited to only male Medical Students at the University of the Philippines College of Medicine (say as a competitor to Phi Kappa Mu (http://www.phikappamu.com/)) and had Blue and White as their colonrs, I seriously doubt that Phi Mu Alpha -Sinfonia would sue them.

OTOH, if it this group were Phi Mu Alpha (or Sinfonia) at the University of Philippines Music and Performing Arts College limited to Music Students and had a crest with a triangle on top of a red diagonal cross on a pentagonal shield and claimed that they were part of your organization. I think Phi Mu Alpha would be *far* more concerned and might actually talk to Phi Beta Kappa to get suggestions.

Agreed. I just wonder how much could feasibly be done. Maybe we'll all learn soon enough.

Maybe. I wish Phi Beta Kappa luck. See www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATGzKOmopHw as an example of what Phi Beta Kappa is suing about. and if you want to see what Sigma Alpha Epsilon is dealing with, see http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/announcement.php?f=90

Unable to find a good source for Alpha Tau Omega, but they do use a symbol that looks similar to the maltese cross for ATO North America...

Randy

greekwatch http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/icon13.gif

This is unpleasant already that we the alumni in the Philippines had decide to tell the alumni secretary to email the executive director of Delta Upsilon and tell about the posting in this matter.

We had told the alumni secretary to reveal all the posting here and to clean out our name that we are not expanding without permission.We are silent already but this thread still reinvented that keeps on annoying us.

Let us see what will come out after the executive director will review this thread.

I know what you feel bro
 

I email this things already to the Executive Director Justin Kirk yesterday.All the alumni decision in the Philippines is right much better to share this matter to the Exec Director and let him discover how we are degraded here.

We come for affiliation in a peaceful manner but some accuse us of being stealers and whatsoever.It`s done brod and the Exec Director knows it already.GODSPEED!!!

please do not tell me you emailed a greek chat thread to Justin Kirk. unbelievable.

Stealing
 

As far as I am concerned, given the degree of openness that Delta Upsilon of the Philippines has now shown, there are *exactly* two groups that can decide that Delta Upsilon is stealing, the Delta Upsilon (North-America) National Board and then once they have made their decision, the Delta Upsilon (North-America) National Convention. (For various reasons that I have stated, I believe that if the National Board decides to accept DU-Phil, that changes to the Delta Upsilon bylaws and minor changes to the *ritual* will have to be made.)

At this point, I feel that it is *no longer appropriate* for those who are not brothers of Delta Upsilon to accuse Delta Upsilon of the Philippoines of stealing, and for brothers of Delta Upsilon, they should, IMO, accept that at this point it is now being handled in the most appropriate manner, and arguments that it is not should be taken up with your national officers.

As for Greekwatch's comment:mad:, yes the setup of Delta Upsilon of North America tends to encourage chapters to have houses. However, I would expect that this will either lead to different rules for the Philippines of a separate national organization. However, this comment was very poorly phrased.

Randy
Sincerel

Eh...ok

Closing thread pending a decision by DU's IHQ and/or National Convention.

Subject closed.
 

It has been brought to my attention that Delta Upsilon's Board of Directors has declined recognition to the Philippine groups, and that the leadership of the Philippine groups has been made aware of this decision.

I anticipate no further discussion by or about the Philippine groups will be needed here (see quote below), so this thread will remain closed indefinitely.

DU Philippines Closed
 

For the info of all DU`s in North America and Canada,DU`s in the Philippines are already closed by the alumni officers in the Philippines.All members and officers of the 6 chapters in the Philippines had come up to a decision to respect and follow the order of the Board of Directors.Although it`s hurtful for us but we still accept that everything happens for a reason.

Our websites already closed and shut down same with all the chapters.Some chapters had change the name into another greek letters but others had transferred to other fraternities.All has it`s freedom to decide whether to remain in another greek name or another organization.

To all DU`s in US and Canada wish you all the best and farewell!!!!