No, I'm sorry. I guess my "anger" (if you even want to call it that) was geared more toward 33girl, in that she thinks I'm crazy in saying that we can't change to formal recruitment without having more girls, and more prominence on campus. To me, that's the only setting that formal really works in. Again, if no one signs up for recruitment, how do you have formal?

The other problem with deferred recruitment... on a good portion of campuses that have it, it applies to all girls. At our school, only first semester freshmen can't receive bids in the fall. So while some girls are celebrating, other girls are wishing that they could. And yes, it is difficult to keep girls around. I can completely understand the thinking of, "well, if I can't join this semester, why not just wait until next semester to show up?" Because again, there is very little interest in joining a sorority. If you ask any of the girls in my chapter they'll say they never thought they would and/or they were completely against it. And now they love it. It takes convincing. So yea, if I was asked to attend events during my first semester, and I couldn't join, there's a very good chance that I wouldn't go.

And that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be a good member, and that I wouldn't dedicate myself completely to the sorority the following semester. That just means that I have the same reaction as most people: If I can't join, why go?

And again, if, as a whole, the sororities continue to have problems recruiting a large number of girls each year, I think it would be beneficial (for the time being), to get rid of deferred recruitment. Unless of course it applied to all students, but that would make things extremely difficult right now with so little interest.

It's a difficult situation that, right now, has no easy answers. I realize more and more after visiting this website that we have a more complicated system than most others. But I have been in the sorority for almost 5 years, and I've seen how the system works and doesn't work.

Now I'M not trying to be snarky... just trying to give my opinion about the direction Greek life should be headed. Hopefully the other two chapters have as much success this year as my girls are having, and the entire system can be changed. But we'll just have to see.

And I'll be back soon to update the story!

The main reason I think deferred is good (BTW, I am the biggest deferred rush cheerleader for everyone, it's not just your campus) is because the women have time to know what they're getting into or warm up to the idea. On a campus where the majority of people do not have a Greek background, this is even more important. Sure you would have people join first semester if they could. You'd probably also have an increase in losing members with people who drop out or flunk out or transfer. Ole Miss and Bama and places like that can handle that happening w/ no problem. Smaller chapters can't.

I just feel like a lot of what you are saying is a self fulfilling prophecy.

My chapter had the exact same deferred recruitment as you, except we had COR in the fall and formal recruitment in the spring. When I was graduating, they were thinking of changing formal recruitment to partially-structured or COR year round. I'm not sure what happened (whether they changed it or not, because I know my chapter has taken two classes per school year since and is still at or wavering around total, as well as many other chapters at or wavering around total), but believe me, our campuses are fairly similar. And it doesn't hurt that they're less than 20 miles from each other.

Like I've said, if our situation improves number-wise, it might not even be a problem.

Quite frankly, a large problem with it is that the fraternities tend to ignore it the rule, hide the fact that they have first semester freshmen, and still only have classes of maybe 5 in the fall semester. Funny thing is, in the one fraternity that I know very well, the guys they take as first semesters are the ones who succeed more so than any others. One of the first semester freshmen they took last year had the highest GPA in the chapter.

On the other hand... my chapter has followed the rules, and in the past 2 years they've had one girl fail out of school (after having a very good GPA when she first joined), another girl who left school for a little while and came back, only to do absolutely nothing and party all the time, and get herself kicked out, and another girl, who, while she seemed fine at first, started to not attend new member events and activities, then HAD to be initiated because it was so late in the new member process, and then lied and transferred schools without even telling anyone.

We've had our fair share of problems in that regard, we've dealt with them, and obviously none of them were a result of deferred recruitment.

Now, if we had a system such as yours alphagam, that might work in our favor. In that respect, during the fall semester, we could COB those girls that we know are second semester freshmen and up, and at the same time, attempt to have first semester freshmen, along with anyone else interested, sign-up for spring formal recruitment.

Again, with COB all year, it makes things difficult. But strictly having formal right now would be difficult, too. But as you've been able to see from my first post, there's a trend of having smaller new member classes in the fall and having larger ones in the spring.

It's hard deduct which systems would work best, as formal had failed, and COB hasn't produced large results for all 3 chapters, either. But maybe an in-between, let's try both, kind of approach might work.

No, they were probably a result of this.

And I don't think I ever said anything about having strictly formal recruitment...formal in the spring, COB or minimally structured in the fall.

No, they were probably a result of them being perfectly fine throughout their new member period, as we have numerous meetings with them to see how they're progressing in the sorority and in school, and then once they become sisters, they change. Each one of these girls were perfect angels during recruitment, and throughout most, if not all, of their new member period. After that, what can you do? They're initiated. Because of the issues they were having, we met with them, and presented issues to them, and the behavior continued, so they're not here anymore. Some people screw up, refuse to admit it, and don't learn from their mistakes. That's not any fault of our own.

Is there some room for improvement within the new member selection process? Yes, of course, and there probably always will be. But that doesn't mean that we're bidding people just because we need numbers.

On Wednesday night, some of the sisters invited the PNMs to join them in the student union to watch ‘Sex and the City’. The school was playing a few episodes of the show in one of the lecture halls, and the sisters thought it would be fun if they went. From what I understand, 4 or 5 PNMs showed up, and everyone had a great time.

Last night the sisters had their final recruitment party of the semester. There were about 9 or 10 PNMs who attended, two of which were new. One of the PNMs is friends with one of the sisters, and she had reservations about coming to recruitment parties. This one sister also indicated that the PNM wasn’t sure if she wanted to join because she was transferring to Penn State Main the following year. But obviously none of the sisters saw that as a problem.

The other PNM just showed up on her own. She is a junior, and she seemed relatively interested. One of the things the girls did at this last event was to have each of the sisters give their name, nickname (describe it if they liked), and then talk about what the sorority means to them. This one PNM asked a bunch of questions after this occurred, and she really wanted to know more about the sorority.

After the party was over, the girls briefly discussed the PNMs so that they have some idea of what to expect from the membership selection process on Sunday.

The Recruitment Director should be receiving the grade release form back from the Greek Advisor today, so the sisters will know how many PNMs are eligible to receive a bid.

The big day is quickly approaching…

:)

Glad to hear about another couple of successful recruitment events for you guys!

I go to Delaware - we have deferred rush and no informal in the fall, and our pledge classes are around 50 girls.

The OP is at Penn State Behrend. Delaware is just a tad-bit bigger. :)

Ok, I have an update!

… but things have been confusing.

On Friday, the Recruitment Director received the grade release form back from the Greek Advisor. She informed the RD that the chapter could not bid first semester freshmen (obviously already known) or transfer students.

WHAT?!

She said that because they don’t yet have a Penn State GPA, transfer students were considered to be like first semester freshmen, and therefore could not receive a bid until the following semester. Well… the sisters started to realize that a good number of the upperclassmen that were at the recruitment events were transfer students. So the girls were down to only a few girls that were eligible to receive bids.

Then comes bid day.

The girls were ready and in the mindset that they would be handing out only a few bids later that night. Come 12:00, the girls were all sitting down at sister lunch (which they have together every Tuesday), and the Recruitment Director joined them and told them all that Student Activities screwed up. It turns out that transfer students are eligible to receive bids as long as they have a certain amount of credits from another university (or something like that). The sisters attempted to get the necessary people together so a vote could be made that day on the PNMs, but it didn’t work out, and with 2 people missing, they didn't have everyone that they needed in order to make a decision.

The President has called a special meeting tonight in order to decide.

So… the number of new members they actually have will be a secret revealed on another day.

:)

I don't want to tread into selection details here but am curious more about chapter operations. Does AST have a membership selection board? I know some NPCs have a board that is basically comprised of only the RD, Pres and Adviser who can give bids as they see fit. Generally with formal recruitment, the chapter will have a vote in selection sessions but (especially during COB), the power to extend a bid would be at the discression of this board. This being said, could a membership selection board make a decision in the best interest of the chapter (to make an obvious decison)?

I'm pretty sure that this is selection details.

It has nothing to do with why a pnm is or isn't selected but how a chapter operates.

I'm not sure as to what exactly I should or shouldn't say, but.. I think I'm confused as to what you're asking in the first place.

Are you asking whether we have a selection board to exclusively select members, and the rest of the chapter isn't involved... or whether the chapter decides, and a selection board, which might make more rational decisions than the chapter, can essentially "override" what the sisters decide for the good of the chapter?