First of all, you do not have to get so hostile KABillyMac. I read that members of the KKK started KA somewhere and since it was in a book, I thought it was true. I've also heard it through the grapevine that it is true. But I talked to my brother-in-law last night and he said that he knows that it is not true and I believe him. I apologize for the mix up. Just chill out!

I guess this topic died but Kappa Alpha Order is the best. your son did a fine job on his choice!!!!!!!

I don't know any KA's personally. But the charter of the chapter at University of North Texas was just suspended for 5 years due to racist comments made to minorities on campus.

Here is the link to the story at CNN.com:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/02/03/fra....ap/index.html

DISGUSTING!!!

i think you would find what happened to the KA's at my school very interesting.

KA society still exists. I think!
We have a chapter at the University of Toronto.
They're a 'literary society'. So they say. Although, as far as I'm concerned, they have a beer fridge, so they're a frat.
Regarldess, the society, if it is one of the same, is still alive, at least in Toronto.

------------------
Gamma Phi Beta
University of Toronto
Alpha Alpha

I don't know any KA's either, but while in Austin I saw this in the American-Statesman. I dont think it got the national attention that the same thing at UNT did. Funny how the media is. The reporter on tv there did mention the UNT event in December and closed his remarks with, "So obviously there is a history of problems with this orginization." Sounds like he'd already made his mind up about the suspension.
http://www.austin360.com/statesman/e...o_state_3.html

There is a Kappa Alpha Order forming at my school (Univ. of N.Florida) and from who i've met they are really great guys.. Real Gentlemen!

Chapters are different on every campus, so I can only tell you my impressions of 2 KA chapters. The KA men I hung out with in my college days at Georgia College were all gentlemen. They stood for women when we walked in the door, opened doors for us, and treated us as ladies. The same goes for the KA chapter at Georgia Tech where my brother is a member. He was just initiated last Saturday, and I can tell you right now that he would not be a part of any group that supports racist ideals.

They are very proud of their roots and do consider Robert E. Lee one of their spiritual founders. It is because of this Confederate link that they are often stereotyped as "racist". This makes my blood boil! I truly wish that more fraternity guys incorporated the Southern Gentlemen idea into their daily lives like the KA's do. From everything I have seen, they are all decent, upstanding men - proud of their fraternity and its history.

We have the Kappa Alpha Order here at ASU and they're great guys. They do have things like a Confederate flag in their house, and pictures of General Lee, but I've never heard one of them make a racist remark. Some of my sisters have gone on dates with them and have all reported that they're real gentlemen.

just got this today over the school greek web list serve that some school in Texas is under fire because while a tour group was viewing the school, including several african-american basketball persepectives, several of the KA's wrapped in a confederate flag, shouted racial slurs towards the group. while the incident was shut down quickly, the KA chapter at (i want to say U. of Northern Texas--but not hundred % positive since i deleted the email) is under investigation and likely to get there charter pulled, especially since this hinges on the recent end of probation for the chapter for alcohol related violations. I will look for the article.

Found it:
KA suspended at two other schools

Eric Finley and Megan Middleton Staff Writers
Published February 22nd 2001

Kappa Alpha Order fraternities at Arkansas Tech University and Southwestern University, chapters of the same national organization suspended from NT Feb. 2, were both suspended for five years this week for conduct unbecoming their universities.

Southwestern University in Georgetown suspended its Kappa Alpha chapter on Monday, citing violations of safety, alcohol, and personal conduct as well as verbal and physical abuse. A statement released by SWU President Jake Schrum said at least two members of the fraternity allegedly used racial slurs.

Arkansas Tech's suspension against its Kappa Alpha chapter was handed down Wednesday, following a six-month investigation by the school into the fraternity. The school listed many of the same reasons as SWU, including threats, intimidation and harassment of students, as well as disorderly conduct. A statement released by Arkansas Tech made no mention of usage of racial slurs, however. The school also placed Sigma Phi Epsilon on probation for a year.

The suspensions come just three weeks after outrage over similar allegations against Kappa Alpha rocked NT. The suspensions given by Arkansas Tech and SWU are similar to the five-year death penalty handed down by NT against Kappa Alpha.

Although all three suspensions have come within a month, representatives from both Arkansas Tech and SWU called the timing coincidental.

"The difference between our situation and the one at UNT is that this results from a progressive series of violations against students and against our school handbook," SWU spokesperson Eric Van Danen said. "It's very specific to Southwestern. It is similar to the suspension handed down [by NT] because the members are required to move out of their house and petition the university to return in five years."

Susie Nickelson, a spokesperson for Arkansas Tech, said that although university officials were aware of NT's situation, it had little impact on Arkansas Tech's decision.

"The sanctions at UNT took place about the same time there was another incident involving Kappa Alpha here," Nickelson said. "But I don't believe that would have an effect on the university's ruling. The timing of it was purely a coincidence."

Roddy Wolper, director of news and information at NT, said to his knowledge there was no contact between the three universities about the Kappa Alpha fraternities. Wolper also said troubles with Kappa Alpha by other fraternities did not affect NT's decision.

"We had clear cause to take the actions that we did based on what we found in the investigation," Wolper said. "We had to make our decision based on what happened at UNT."

The three incidents do have similarities in the charges, however. All three schools cited Kappa Alpha for unsociable behavior. NT and SWU also ruled that members of Kappa Alpha made racist comments. All three had been put on probation before their suspensions, NT's chapter twice for alcohol violations in the past decade. SWU had also placed individual members of the fraternity on probation in recent weeks.

Though the three suspensions appear similar in nature, a spokesperson for the National Kappa Alpha Chapter denied any kind of negative trend against his fraternity.

"We look for new and creative ways to educate our chapters on our policies and proper decorum and behavior," said Larry Wiese, executive director of Kappa Alpha Order in Lexington, Va.

Wiese also denied allegations of racism against the national organization, saying that the use of the Confederate battle flag by some Kappa Alpha fraternities is not a symbol of the national chapter.

Kappa Alpha members at NT were accused of waving a Confederate battle flag during bid day at a group of prospective football recruits touring the campus. Members of Eagle Angels said members of NT's Kappa Alpha chapter made racist comments to African-American football recruits in the group.

Matt Spellman, president of NT's Kappa Alpha chapter, denied that any member of Kappa Alpha made racial slurs to the football recruits.

The Kappa Alpha fraternity house at Southern Methodist University had a Confederate battle flag painted on its basketball court until members painted over the flag in recent weeks.

"The Confederate [battle] flag has never been a symbol of Kappa Alpha Order," Wiese said. "[Fraternity members] are concerned that their use of the Confederate flag has been misinterpreted."

In fact, Wiese said members of 17 chapters of Kappa Alpha Order from Texas and Oklahoma met at SMU Saturday and passed a resolution condemning the use of the Confederate battle flag in association with Kappa Alpha.

"They voted unanimously to ban the display of the Confederate flag from any Kappa Alpha property or event," Wiese said.

Van Danen said many of SWU's Kappa Alpha members were active in the Georgetown community. Van Danen said of the Kappa Alpha members at SWU, 19 were members of the school's baseball team.

Like the former Kappa Alpha members at NT, no individuals from SWU or Arkansas Tech were suspended from school

What to say, what to say............

OK, I'm going to start off with the N. Texas Incident. First of all, I have no doubts about the KA's at N. Texas waiving the confederate battle flag during bid day. A lot of chapters do. Do I agree with it? Well, as a strong supporter of the Confederate sentiment, and a lover of the Battle Flag, I have to say that a true gentleman wouldnt wave the Battle Flag in any area that it would offend anyone in public. Course I was always offended by that "It's a black thing, you wouldnt understand" shirt. Now having the flag in the chapter house or in the brothers apartments are diffrent stories. Did the N. Texas KA's shout racist slurs? I highly doubt it. 2 reasons.
1. bid day, why in the hell would someone break away from the excitement of bid day to shout racist slurs. Too much going on to have time for that.
2. Why would anyone piss off sports recruits?
I feel like these young men saw the KA's with the Battle Flag out, greeting our new brothers, and got their panties in a wad and told the dean of the school that no way in hell would they attend a university were a bunch of guys walked around with Battle Flags hung over their shoulder. I know I'm gonna catch hell for this.

Southwestern.

I dont know what the hell happend there. I think that all of Texas is in a uproar right now and there is no telling what that suspension is from. It could be something as small as having a Battle Flag hung in a couple rooms of the house.

Arkansas

This is just as much a load of crap. One of the brothers girlfriend had her car written on with shoe polish by a group of Sig Eps, who also disrespected her and called her names. In defense of this womans honor, this brother would'nt stand for it. KA at Arkansas gone, Sig Eps got a slap on the wrist. Trust me, our nationals DOES NOT PLAY. We have to maintain gentleman status with everything we do as KA's. We are constantly looked upon and analyized, and now more than ever we are under the microscope.

Look folks, I love the South. I dont defend racism. My Confederate Battle Flag doesnt mean that to me, nor most of the brothers I have come in contact with. To me, it symbolizes a group of men fighting oppresion, and willing to give their lives for their homes. The good general, Robert E. Lee did not support slavery. When offered the command of the UNION forces he declined, saying that he will side with the Confederacy, in defense of his home, old Virginia. Members of my family died in defense of their southern homes. In 1860's slavery was pretty much already on its way out, and most southern soldiers didnt even own slaves, they were just fighting for their homelands.I am a Southerner. Damn proud to be one too. I dont mind getting laughed at for my accent. I dont mind folks laughing at me for wearing boots with a 400 dollars sport coat. I have a good engineering job, a great family, a beutiful girlfriend who I hope will do me the honor of marrying me one day, my faith is good, I make a mean barbeque, got a good dog, a good looking truck, pretty decent golf game, hunt and fish with the best of em, and believe it or not, this ol country boy can actually cut a rug every once in a while. I am who I am. Good southern men would give you the shirts off their back, the last bite of food they have, and the consideration to stand when a lady walks in a room. The Battle Flag will become as socially unexceptable as the swastika soon. The romantism of the South and being a good southerner in general are both beutiful things. I wouldnt trade it for anything, and I'm willing to give my life for my beliefs. The shirt I have on right now has Robert E. Lee's "Definition of a Gentleman" on the back of it. No battle flag. And yes, its a shirt from my chapter.

The ELC for the Texas chapters is a good friend of mine and I hope to be in contact with him soon, so maybe I will be better informed on these incidents. I'm anxious to hear what he has to say.
There are times when everyone should mind their own buisness and I definantly think this is one of those times. The Order lost 3 chapters this month. We didnt need you to remind us, and I dont think the rest of the world needed you to remind them either

[This message has been edited by KABillyMac (edited February 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KABillyMac (edited February 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KABillyMac (edited February 23, 2001).]

KABillyMac, I am a member of Delta Sigma Phi at UTSA. Me and about 10 of my brothers from this chapter took a road trip to UNT to visit our brothers there and attend their Bid Day. I was there in the bid room at the University union w/ the KA's during that time, they had their Confederate Flag out and their dog "Dixie". I am hispanic, but in no shape, way or form was I offended, because I knew it was a symbol of pride to (some)of the KA's. I went to UNT my Freshman year and the KA's i met were cool guys, they never said anything derogatory about me. When bid day was over we all walked out of the Room and (YES) the KA's did make what could be considered racist remarks (I'm not lying and would make no reason to). I personally laughed it off and continued yelling our chants. There was a group touring the union at the time looking at us from downstairs, but I don't think the KA's did it intetionally. This was the incident on the same day prior to the football recruits walking past their house. Anyways our chapter left that night and about 2 days later I was made aware of the incident by a brother of mine at UNT. I was also made aware that one of your brothers in UNT-Student Government who was the president stepped down and disbanded himself from KA during the investigation. I think his name was Matt. Just wanted to let you know I was there and saw the incident and am in no way dislikeful of Kappa Alpha Order.
DeltaSig at UTSA

I think that says alot, it is good to hear that from someone who was actually there to see it. Good to see that the KA's there showed you some hospitality. Thanks for the support.

USF

My point being that with the state that the greek community is in does it really help when we come to the board and post the wrong doings of other chapters/organiztions? What is to gain in that? There are pledges dying every year among other things, hazing, etc. I see few of these happenings posted here. Say I'm reading the morning paper and I come across a article in the paper about xyz fraternity/sorority who got their charter pulled because of xyz123 incident. Now, what is the right thing to do? Should I throw the paper down, run upstairs, get on greekchat and post a reply about it, telling the entire world, or do i shake my head in disbelief, pray that it doesnt happen to my chapter, and go about my buisness. (Disclaimer to Liberals: I know that the world and this board has a right to know. I'm not saying that you dont. My point is for non greeks and potential greeks that visit this board, how do you think this makes us look. And trust me, although this is mainly a reflection of KA, it looks bad on us all.)

Now, M'am, I'm sorry I confused you with a male, and no, I dont want to slander your chapter. I hope all of you realize how seriously pissed-the-hell off I was today when I came to work, checked my mail, checked greekchat and BOOM! the KA folder is red. I knew what it was, I just didnt know how far it had went sent my last visit. I havent got a lick of work done today because I have been waiting for more posts. (Disclaimer to Mr. Hammel: Sir, I think this thread is going to get heated. My apolgies up front. I have to do what I can to defend my Order, or at least shine a little light on a terrible situation. I am only one man of 2 on this board that is KA. I guess I gotta say somethin, I'm usually pretty quiet on here.) Anyway, USF, my apoligies.