I'm not sure what else I am supposed to view them as? Yes, they are in my fraternity. They took the same oaths, went through the same rituals....many went through pledgeship and came out unscathed......and I commend them for that. I will treat them all with the same respect and courtesy I would anyone, unless they act in a manner that doesn't deserve it. But as far as viewing them in the same light as guys who I am personally involved with every day, guys who know my family, have been to relatives funerals, have keys to my home, go on trips with us.....I'm sorry.....I can't open my life up to a guy whom I don't know at the drop of a hat and treat them like I've known them for a long period of time.

That is what I think of when I read "treating them differently". It's not like I'm going to treat them as less of a person because they aren't a member of my chapter, haha.

I think it's very common.

I've never said I don't observe a "national brotherhood" with guys from all over the country. It's just much stronger towards the guys in my chapter. I think that is perfectly reasonable.

Also, I'm not taking it as an attack. I am just shocked at some of the ludicrous statements that have been made......insulting and demeaning statements.

Reading a response from someone in which she claims a "farce" of brotherhood and attacks a man's chapter with the preconceived notion that he and his brothers wouldn't accept individuals from other schools because they are not "old money" and may have less personal wealth is insulting.....and it's rude.

^^^ Got it. Thanks.

Oh, and to clarify, in my "why join a national..." comment, I meant the general you (not you specifically). But thanks again for responding. I learn something new on GC every day :)

No problem. I appreciate you being civil and levelheaded in your responses.

read: nice and understanding.

Its only one weekend. They come they go, you don't deal with them again for awhile. Thats how my chapter looked at it with others chapters we didn't like. We were hospitable while they were here. If they act like jackasses and you notice it during their stay, tell them to knock the crap off. Worst case you have to tell them they won't be back. If there's a sober one and they keep it up, tell them they have to go. If you find out after the fact, you are more then justified in telling them they are not welcomed until further ntoice. A plus is they're letting you know. We had chapters just drop in before.



Wow is all I can say. Why don't you ask your nationals those questions and see what they say??? They would be hugely dissapointed that you have to even ask. You just truly don't get brotherhood (at least on a national level).

I have to ask - since you seem to feel this way about those who are members of your fraternity but not in your chapter, do you feel the same way toward your founders?

Your founders did not participate in your pledgeship. Your founders did not live with you for five or six years.

What does that make them?

We've gotten into this before about my (and a few other guys on the board) opinions on nationals. Nationals are only worth it for the insurance. If we could figure out how to make it just as cheap, we would likely break away. Nationals is a waste of space otherwise. Nothing further needs to be said because it's off topic.

In my opinion, that makes them the founders of the organization.

They have great ideals which lay the foundation, but they're not my brothers in any sense that the guys in my chapter are.

I really don't understand the love-affair between Greek-Chat and the national organization.

And without your founders, you would not have your chapter.

QED

Sorry to hear you needed to go to a funeral, SEC, they're never easy, but they're extra tough around holidays. And I hope you get back and find your house still standing; I didn't realize it was this weekend they wanted to visit, it does seem odd they'd pick Easter weekend... it was nice of your chapter to let them stay.

I think it's a perfect question to ask nationals. I'd love to know their thoughts on how you should view the thousands of members of your organization whom you don't know from Adam. I'd be willing to be they would utter many of the same things that we have said here.........that you should treat them with kindness, courtesy, and respect. You should observe the fact that all of us share the same rituals and oaths that we took upon becoming members of our organization.

I doubt very seriously that they would be "disappointed" in the fact that some of us actually view brotherhood as something that you have to create between the men that you are around all of the time. That you have to work towards it to achieve it. You talk of brotherhood like it's just suddenly bestowed upon all of us at the same time once we become members of our organizations. It has taken years to create the bonds that I have made with my pledge/fraternity brothers. Sorry if it shocks and irritates you that we hold those bonds very dearly and aren't willing to just garner some random XYZ fraternity member with the same amount of deep closeness that we share with the members of our separate chapters. Members from other chapters have my respect and admiration for choosing to join our organization. They will all enjoy the common courtesy that I have been taught to treat all people with. Until we meet and get to know each other, that's what they are getting. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Please though, enlighten me on how to "get" brotherhood.

My founders died around 140 years ago too. Not especially relevant.

I view them as just that, founders of one of the top fraternal organizations in the country. Their ideas, loyalty, admiration, and devotion to creating an organization for us to be a part of will always be recognized and deeply respected by me. Do I view them as the same light as my best friends in my chapter........no. How is that even possible?

You're right.

What does that have anything to do with brotherhood in my chapter though?

There are people outside of my organization who know about our handshake, ritual, etc. Does that mean we share a bond of brotherhood? Or do I just need to send a check to nationals to be called 'brother'? Look at the criteria you people are using to qualify 'brotherhood', it's absurd.

I understand that these organizations are hypothetically supposed to have a set of uniform principles that members adhere to, but let's be honest, how true is that? Does every member of every chapter of your organization have the same standards of morals as you? What about political or idealogical views?

having letters in front of your name doesn't make you brothers, the experiences you go through together do. I really doubt SAE's at Mother Mu in Alabama are going to be best buddies with an SAE at Oregon.

two different worlds.

now they won't necessarily not get along, but the similarities are slim

Well, there are plentys of lcoals out there which shows if you really wanted to it could be done. How would you alumni view that though?