I think the OP is more concerned that his chapter has a pledge who is a pathological liar rather than satisying his curiosity. Serving in the military is a pretty serious thing to lie about.

He MAY have done some prior service. It IS true that some of the fresh-out-of-high-school cadets at the federal service academies AND the ROTC programs look askance at the prior enlisted men. My H was a professor at one of the federal service academies and was a commander as a company and field grade officer. While he respected the fact that these prior-service cadets moved up out of the enlisted ranksand obviously excelled militarily, many of them couldn't handle the academic rigors of the academies. I can't speak for ROTC but it probably would vary upon the academics of the specific major and of course college/university.

Who Cares?
 

Would you ask any other pledge to furnish proof of prior employment?

Is he a good pledge? Does he get along with everyone? If he'd make a good brother, don't worry about it. Call him up to a standards meeting, tell him what was said and give him a chance to explain.

I'm not defending someone who lies, or discounting that someone who lies about something may lie about something else-- something that could affect the reputation or integrity of the chapter. But if your whole reason for pledging this guy was so you could say "We have a war vet in our chapter," that's weak. I'm as much for recruiting the best members, and you want certain bragging rights, but I would hope there was more to this guy than just his work record that compelled you to bid him.

I've no doubt your other members have embellished their accomplishments or lied about things before-- would this make-or-break their membership?

Umm, wow, no, you are really on the wrong path here. There's a difference between saying "I was dating 3 girls at a time!" (when 2 of them were imaginary) and lying about ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY SERVICE. That's a big big BIG deal. That's kind of like saying your parents are dead when they're not.

And I don't think that scoobis said at all that they ONLY bid him because he was a vet - rather that it was one of the many things they liked about him. But if he's been trading on this as a way to get to know people and it's not real, it's certainly not the fraternity that should be chastised.

Someone who would lie about something this big, I wouldn't trust any further than I could throw him, and I certainly wouldn't want him in my Greek organization.

What does it matter if he's a good pledge? If he lied, then HE LIED.

And just confronting him... pathological liars will keep lying. Do you really think he'd just come out and be like "yeah I lied about my duty". Screw that.

I can't speak for all Army ROTC units; but we have a good number of prior service soldiers in our battalion. As was pointed out already, it is possible for an active-duty enlisted solider (via the Green-to-Gold program) or a prior service solider to enroll in ROTC to earn their degree and an officer commission.

Also, some cadets participate in the SMP program. SMP is the Simultaneous Membership Program where cadets can sign up for the US Army Reserves or National Guard while being in school. SMP members must enlist, attend basic training and possibly attend Advanced Individual Training - that makes them "real" soldiers and they have to attend drill on the weekends. Though, they earn benefits/financial aid and they do not deploy while in school for ROTC.

Based on the information scoobis provides, this pledge's circumstances sound suspicious. Without more information, I don't understand how he could have been in ROTC, dropped out, served two tours in Afghanistan and Iraq (usually at 7-18 mos a piece for the Army) and managed to come back to school so quickly (because other students apparently still know him).

For this story to make any sense, the pledge would have to be a prior enlisted soldier who served in the war, THEN went to college, tried ROTC to possibly get a commission, then dropped out, then decided to pledge a fraternity. If this is the case, he should either have a DD-214 discharge document because he'd be out of the service now or he'd have a military ID because he'd be completing his active duty or reserve obligations.

How old is this guy?
What years did he go to the Middle East?
What years did he participate in ROTC?

He couldn't have completed ROTC because, in order to earn a commission, one needs to have a bachelor's degree. I'm assuming that, if he's in college and pledging and whatnot, that he's an undergrad.

Again, I can only comment on my own personal experiences; however, in all the years I have worked with Army, Navy/Marine and Air Force ROTC, I can say that I have never heard a cadet "talk smack" in this manner about another cadet who has served/deployed. In fact, being an SMP or prior service cadet is not looked down upon, it's almost considered 'cool' to have gotten a head start on their military career. Even cadets have pride in their ROTC "service" and they are looking forward to their active or reserve duty.

If this pledge's personality was so terribly awkward (which would be in contrast to scoobis' glowing description of him) then I could see a cadet saying, "Yeah, Billy Bob was a total dope and washed out of the ROTC program". HOWEVER, I would be VERY shocked and surprised if a cadet would lie to scoobis and say "Billy Bob never even served in the military at all. He's making everything up; it's all a lie." One solider may not like another...but he sure as hell wouldn't say something like *that* just to be spiteful.

I've already been long-winded in this post; so I'll stop prattling on. Suffice it to say that I am suspicious of this pledge's integrity based on the information given and what I know about ROTC and military service. Either he needs to let it go and hope that this guy isn't a pathological liar; ask the ROTC staff if they have any insight; or, as DGTess suggests, just come right out and ask the guy why his former ROTC colleagues would be saying something like that.

.....Kelly :)

Ok...I just talked to one of my Army colleagues and he says that the guy should have a DD-214 if he's out or, if he's Army, an ERB (Enlisted Record Brief, will show his deployments) if he's still in. If he doesn't have one of those two things, he's very likely a liar.

The catch, of course, is working up the nerve to confront a friend. :( I wouldn't want to call-out a vet either only to find out that he's legit. Though, for me, lying about military service is much worse than asking a vet to produce a DD-214 in order to help protect his integrity. I'd like to think that, if the pledge has served our country, then he would understand and wouldn't want anyone making false claims either.

.....Kelly :)

33girl, I was going to say all of that but you beat me to it. Also if he lies about being in the military then he would lie about anything. Would you really have trust for someone like that? I couldn't. There would be no trust. He can't be no Brother if he lacks trust from the Brotherhood for being a liar, especially a lie like that. How could you trust him with your Fraternity secrets? But to the person who posted this, I would sit down with the guy and tell him what you heard. Do some investigating. I know that at my school you can actually go to greek affairs to find out if a pledge or any incoming students interested in greek life were in the military. If he was not, then he has got to go.

Actually, this guy does not have to be a college "graduate" to become an officer. In fact, you only need 90 credits to become an officer but, before you try to become a Captain-you must have your Bachelor's by then.

He may have also done the OCS program (Officer Candidate School). You can be in the military like the Guard and go to school while one-weekend-a-month going to your OCS station. There is an accelerated program and a traditional program (which I think trad. takes 2-3 years, whereas the acc. program is pretty quick).

I also joined the military when I was 17 (with permission of my parents-signing). I went to basic between training between the end of my junior year and the beginning of my senior year in high school and later went to AIT the summer after I graduated high school. I was in college for a semester (in 2002) before I was called up to serve in Iraq. When deployments first started (when I went) in 2003, they didn't always last a full year. In fact, I was deployed for a total of 9 months. I served 2 in the states training up to go with my unit, 1 month in Kuwait and 6 months in Iraq. I later returned to school in 2004 (since by the time I returned, in October 2003 the semester was already in session). I still remembered everyone-and they remembered me. So, it is quite possible for your brother to have had an experience like mine.

I even joined the ROTC program but, still did drills with my unit one state over (4-hour trip one way) since I had gone overseas with them-they put me in a special MI program. Between receiving my Associate's, 2-Bachelor's Degrees and a minor, along with all my other involvement in school (not to mention my sorority) and my military service during that time--I chose not to stick with ROTC. I liked the program but, I was unsure what I wanted to do with myself after graduation. Maybe your brother is in the same boat. So, yes it is possible he did serve and did do ROTC but, it became too much for him (especially-if he is like me and pays his own way without the financial help of his family).

Give him the benefit of the doubt but, def. talk to him. No one deserves to be lied to whether it's about dating a million and one girls or being in the military because it's about respect. You should respect your friends and your brothers / sisters.....

Two things.

It will be too easy to get accurate info. Like it was already suggested, just go talk or send a friendly email to his Battalion CDR. The email address will be on the school's rotc homepage. Tell him your concerns, and point out that you need this info because it's an integrity check.

Second, again like someone pointed out, if this guy is lying about his service-DROP his ass before it is too late. He may keep up appearances for awhile, but eventually his lying will catch up and by that time it will be too late.

This is the situation that has been explained to me. I'm in the process of contacting the battalion leader for our ROTC program. I've only told our president and his pledge educator about this and they suggested that i just do some further research into the matter.

Again i've got to say thanks to everyone who's helping me out with this because nobody in our house has any idea about how to handle finding a way to prove or disprove him. I just hope this is all bs and we can initiate this kid.

It sounds to me like you are referring to DCO for the Army Reserves, yes? You mentioned the Guard and attending OCS on drill weekends. There are a bazillion and one different military programs and, as I mentioned before, without having more info from scoobis (about branch, program, enlisted or officer, etc), it's hard to say with any certainty what this guy may or may not have done. You know how it is, too many acronyms to consider! :)

Your situation basically fits into the scenario I described when I said, "For this story to make any sense..." Which, conveniently enough, is apparently what scoobis understands to be the case about his friend.

Given your experience and background, do you think your former ROTC colleagues would have the gall to say, "Nah, she never went to Kuwait or Iraq, she's making that up."?

At any rate, you must have had some ups and downs between 2002-2004! Thanks for serving!

.....Kelly :)

Is it possible that the ROTC kids just don't know what they're talking about? They could be shit talking for a variety of reasons, including jealousy or spite. I would look into it, as you are, but not disbelieve him until you have proof.

I'm sorry if it sounded as though I was trying to correct you-you had all your information correct....but, as you stated...Yes-there are way too many acronymns in the military-so, that can be very confusing....:)

I doubt people in ROTC would say that about me. Generally-I dealt with some really great people. You never know, though-some people are just mean...maybe they would have tried bringing that kid down....

I didn't really have any downs between 2002-2004 except that it kind of sucked I was "older" when I joined my sorority (I was 21) so I felt REALLY OLD some of the time-thankfully...the sisters were very sweet about the whole thing...As far as thanking me for my service-THANK YOU....I understand that not everyone agrees with the war (as a Conservative-I'll admit there are things I am starting to re-think and re-view on my part regarding war all together) but, it irks me when people put down the military for doing their job so I want to THANK YOU for being respectful of the military and also for representing your GLO so well! :)

I hope all works out with this pledge!!! :)

Plain and simple all you have to do is say that someone wants to see his DD 214 and/ or ERB (Enlisted record belief) or ORB (Officer Record belief). They all will have years of service, deployments, and awards. If he cant produce anyone of them given a day or so, then kick him out and report him to the Police/ MP's to take care of him.