But I think this confuses realistic expectations with unrealistic expectations. I think KSUViolet06 is describing someone who has realistic expectations, asks honest questions and makes honest observations before deciding to tie the knot. What you have described is someone with unrealistic expectations.

I think that people with realistic expectations can usually figure out what they need to figure out without living together. They may still choose to live together, of course, but they'd know what they need to know either way. On the other hand, people with unrealistic expectations are in for a bumpy ride no matter what.

For my money, good premarital counseling is more important that anything else.

I've heard that couples who live together before marriage have a higher divorce percentage than couples who have never lived together. But those are just statistics. I used to be skeptical about it, but now I personally don't see anything wrong with it.

lilsunshine, I heart your post.

We're definitely on the same path, yep.

That's definitely a possibility, and it does pass the 'smell test' on some level. I'm not sure that this attitude should "outweigh," say, religious indoctrination or family pressures, though - that's why I worded mine in the way I did. While those feelings might be present, it is really hard for me to take it any further.

Besides this, there's a pretty good chance that the current divorce rate is closer to the "true" rate - that is, people aren't as likely to stay in shitty marriages, and we're actually better off for it - which makes this whole thing kind of a non-issue, as those who meet the 'profile' for staying together/living apart can do what they wish, while everyone else does what they think is right, too . . . that's actually much more interesting to me, anyway.

Even after my experience, I'm still pretty torn.

I moved in with my boyfriend after 5 years of dating, after we were both out of school and were ready to take the "next step." In preparing for engagement and wedding, I realized that I just didn't want to do it. It wasn't that I didn't want to get married--I just didn't want to get married to him. Long story short, we ended up breaking up and going our separate ways. We're still great friends, it's just that although he was a good partner for me as an 18-24 year old student, he wasn't any good for me as a young urban professional. My relationship wasn't growing with me. If we had gotten married instead of living together, I'd probably be divorced or headed there.

I'm not against living together--I don't believe it's what caused me to break up with my ex--but I wouldn't do it again.

Word.

*My future career*

I lived with two guys, but both times it was a short-term arrangement. The summer after my freshman year I lived with my boyfriend during the week because I was taking summer classes in the town he was living and it made the most sense to do rather than driving an hour each way from my mom and dad's house. It seemed fine but it was obviously for a short-term duration so I'm not sure what a good reflection of what us actually living together would have been like.

I lived with my current boyfriend this summer because I was working in his town and it was a weird experience. We've been dating a long time so I was pretty sure I knew all his annoying quirks - wrong! You can "play nice" on weekend visits all you want, but that's not necessarily how you actually live. I'm glad we did it and we learned a lot about our relationship. If we can't get married in the church because we shacked up, then so be it. My parents got married by a judge and they've been together thirty years.

Some of the problem with pre-marital counseling and relying on discussing the issues is that sometimes one of the people involved may say one thing during these discussions but then do another. I'll give you one example.. money. My second husband appeared to be very responsible with his money. He had a lot of money invested for retirement when he was only 30. He had enough saved in the bank for a down payment on a house. He had a decent car, good suits and was pretty generous for birthdays, Christmas, etc. He agreed that if we both worked, we both made decisions about how the money was spent. So, what was the problem?? Well, he had been living at home his whole life and was working as an accountant for 5 years while living at home with NO living expenses the entire time. When we got married, had a mortgage and a baby within a year (diapers, formula, day care, new wardrobe for baby every few months as baby grew, etc), we had to live on a budget. Mr. Responsible with Money was a mess. He didn't know how to live on a budget.. he never had to before. He spent money like it was water, always using the ATM card and never putting the amounts in the checkbook. What a nightmare it became. Oh the fights about it! And, it was all my fault, because he didn't have money problems before.. so it must be my fault. I must be spending too much. To this day, he blames me for the debt he ended up incurring because I was buying groceries and clothes for the kids. Without sharing finances before, there was no way to foresee this.

Just an example...

I'm too lazy to go back and find who said this but I would rather be engaged and wedding plans underway before I live with someone. Also, there must be discussion of what is expected and when. But that is a road that I will have to cross when I get there and it seems no where in sight.

I live with the guy, but we have separate bedrooms. We are people who recognize that we need our own space, plus our sleep habits and closets are not compatible to sharing a bedroom. Of course we didn't need to live together to figure out that, but we were tired of crap roommates and we're making it work.

There you go TWIN, I quoted it for you.:) My views are straight from PeppyGPhiB's and KSUViolet mouths. If you ask the right questions and are around each other then you'll begin to truly know each other and their 'quirks'. Once I have the proposal and REAL plans are underway (read: Not "oh we're going to get married in a couple years", Not "I think that's the path we're headed" But Julie is our wedding planner. Venue is the church. This is the date.) then I'm all about moving in and living together. If it happens before then, I think folks can get too comfortable in 'playing house' and feel a false sense of security c) ladies who move in and give up their everything only to find out that it doesn't work.

<--- strong advocate of pre-marital counseling, marriage renewal retreats & partner prayer. :cool:

I agree! Sleeping over on weekends wouldn't make me comfortable enough to fart in front of him, ya know? Gross, but true.:o

TRUE!!! lol....I've been with BF for almost 5 years and just wont be comfortable doing that in front of him.