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Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1533300)

You rang? :D

AOII Angel is indeed correct the name of the letter F is correctly pronounced FEE in Greek and that most GLOs use anglicized pronuncations of the Greek letter names. (Although off the top of my head I can't remember if there are any GLOs other than Alpha Xi Delta that use the Greek pronunciation rather than the anglicized. That's not counting, of course, those orgs that only use letters for which the Greek and anglicized pronunciations are essentially the same, like Kappa Delta. I say 'essentially" because in Kappa would be closer to Kahppa.)

The part that "isn't really accurate" is this:
There is an "I" sound in Greek; at least in classical Greek there is. I'm not sure how prevalent it is in modern Greek. As in most languages other than English, though, it is not represented by a single letter.

The sound we associated with I (eye) is a diphthong, or glided vowel -- two vowel sounds pronounced one after the other in the same syllable with no break in between. Pay attention to your tongue and mouth when you say "eye" (and say it slowly) and you'll notice that you start with the "ah" vowel and end with the "ee" vowel. (If you listen to a trained singer, you'll notice that he or she, if an "eye" sound falls on a longer note, holds the "ah" until almost the end of the note, only moving to the "ee" at the very end.)

In classical Greek, this diphthong would be represented by alpha (ah) iota (ee) together -- ai. Thus, while the letter iota alone does not indicate an "eye" sound, alpha and iota together do. (Or did.) So, for example, the Greek word for "and" -- kai -- would be pronounced like the common American pronunciation of the name of the letter Chi and would rhyme with the English "pie."

I completely agree with this. I was incorrect in saying there is no I sound...there is no letter that alone makes the I sound. It's interesting too that many of the sounds we associate with the greek letters are not the sounds used by Greeks. Our written out spelling of Greek letters are english not Greek. A is called alpha but not spelled out as alpha, etc. It's the name of the greek letter the same as A is "aye" in english. Thanks for the Greek lesson, MysticCat! I also miswrote about the Alpha Xi Delta comment. What I meant was they were the only other group with an I in their name that pronounces the name in the classical greek manner. Some of the americanized greek letters do sound the same as the classical pronunciations.

By the way, MysticCat...did you study classical Greek in school? I'm very interested in your background!:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1533342)

Our written out spelling of Greek letters are english not Greek. A is called alpha but not spelled out as alpha, etc.

This is why I'm always amused when someone tries to spell out the names of the Greek letters using Greek letters and spells Alpha ALPHA. Ummmm, that spells "Alpea." :D Alpha would just be ALFA. (Whenever one sees "ph" in an English word, one can pretty safely bet that the word comes from Greek and that the "ph" was originally F).

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1533344)

By the way, MysticCat...did you study classical Greek in school? I'm very interested in your background!:)

No, I didn't -- just one of the things I've made general, informal study of on my own. Probably didn't hurt that there are quite a few ministers in my family, so I grew up in an environment that valued some understanding of the New Testament in Greek -- that plus an education that stressed an understanding of Greek and Latin roots of words. (Yes, I'm that all old. :D) In addition, with a music background, singers have to learn rules of pronunciation for foreign languages even if they don't have a clue what the words mean -- I can sing or "speak" Italian like a pro, even if I can only guess at what I'm talking about. That's probably given me a facility for paying attention to how foreign words are pronounced.

All of that means that I can be pretty good at figuring out the meanings of lots of Greek and Latin words, and I can be pretty good at figuring out how to pronounce those words, but I'd be lost trying to put a Greek or Latin sentence together. The rules of grammar and syntax I know not at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1533426)

I feel the same way. I find your story very interesting. I, on the other hand, am horrible at pronunciation. I can read languages, but don't try to make me speak them. I guess it's embarassment from trying to speak a foreign language with a southern accent. Nothing ever sounds right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1533426)

In addition, with a music background, singers have to learn rules of pronunciation for foreign languages even if they don't have a clue what the words mean -- I can sing or "speak" Italian like a pro, even if I can only guess at what I'm talking about.

You obviously didn't have my voice teacher. :p All arias/lieder/chanson must not be sung until you are able to recite them as a poem, and fluidly give both a literal and poetic translation. And trust me, "Tell me What Love Is" =/= "Voi Che Sapete". Tried that one.:(:o Luckily I was studying Spanish at the same time, so the Italian was similar, and German is easy, due to the similarities in English. And my teacher gave up on French with me. Nevermind that I studied French 2 years in highschool and my teacher was the French diction teacher, singing + French + me = disaster. Even now, I can barely eek out an acceptable Habanera, and that's about it.

Kappa Delta's Alpha chapter relinquished its charter so that KD could join NPC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1533428)

I just tell people I'm from Southern Germany, or wherever. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 1533429)

LOL. No, my voice teacher also expected us to know exactly what we the words meant as well. Still, though, as Anna Russell said (I think about French art song), "It doesn't really matter if you know what the words actually mean so long as you can pronounce them properly."

Quote:

And my teacher gave up on French with me. Nevermind that I studied French 2 years in highschool and my teacher was the French diction teacher, singing + French + me = disaster. Even now, I can barely eek out an acceptable Habanera, and that's about it.

We had to take either French or German as a language, and for the other language we had to take a class on pronunciation. Yes, after 3 years of French in High School, I took a class on how to pronounce French. The thing is, there actually are differences in pronunciation in sung and spoken French -- things like a silent "e" may not be silent when sung. Who knew?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai- (Post 1532737)

I believe Knox is the old Lombard college......

Actually Knox was in existance before Lombard closed and absorbed Lombard College in the depression. Alpha Xi Delta transfered its Alpha Chapter to Knox at the time of the merger of the colleges, absorbing a local that was already in existance at Knox. Pi Beta Phi and Sigma Nu had chapters at both Knox and Lombard, which were merged as well.

Alpha Xi Delta's Beta chapter at Iowa Wesleyan has the distinction of actually being in existance before the fraternity was founded. Our Beta chapter was originally Chapter "S" of PEO and became Beta of Alpha Xi Delta when PEO stopped having college chapters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1533514)

You'll definitely enjoy this - when my German diction teacher was younger and studying in Vienna, they wouldn't allow her to sing any songs with the German word "bist" in them (and yes, that seriously eliminates most of your vocal selections). She could not say "bIst" to save her life, and even now still has students help her pronounce it during diction class.