Kevin- as usual I managed to write an entire page without answering the original question.

I choose option D)- create a realistic hazing policy with the approach I discuss above and then enforce it strictly with no favoritism. Basically- make it have to be a very bad issue for there to be sanctions, and then impose them consistently.

One other little thing- when an IHQ gets all skittish and creates unrealistic policies and caves in to public and media pressure without due care, they are basically conceding that those who hate GLOs are right to think we should be gone.

"I'm sorry" is maybe the most overused phrase in modern times. An apology and punishment is warranted when it is deserved, but overused it becomes the key weapon for your idealogical enemy.

With todays fine line of hazing the IHQ for all of us are very sensative to any kind of event. The laws of States is making it even more difficlut to know what hazing is made up of.

GLOs are microcosisms of any group or peoples. Even with being adjudged adults by law doesn't make it so for some 18 year olds. While the young when leaving the nest of the parents, they wish to spread thier wings and in many cases error in their decissions.

Then at that point, the older active members are supposed to keep an eye on any and all situations, but sometimes, egos take control.

Knowing a few of the situations that have been mentioned egos can run high even within Alumni too. While this may not have anything to do with running the Active Chapter, it goes to having control of the House building. This too can harm a chapter with the in fighting and with holding of funds for rerbushing the property. This then can now include the city ordinances for fire supression systems and fire codes.

It therefore becomes a three pronged problem with the three factions: IHQ, Active Chapter, and Alumni to work together.

SN as an example at KU, Ks. was suspended after two hazing accidents and have now returned to campus.

To sum it up, never say never when it comes to a Chapter being de-chartered, it can happen whether anyone beleives it or not. The reasons can vary but when it happens, do not be surprised. Even Alums can get upset and back away from a major situation and hope that if the Chapter is de-chartered, they can come back and be even bigger and better.

EE-BO and Kevin have a good handle of the situation as they have been there and seen what can happen.

OTWjr????!!!!

Oh and btw, I was never beaten and am considered a "full" member of a BGLO.

[QUOTE=banditone;1455008]I'd rather not argue with you over this, but Arkansas Sigma Nu was never a top chapter... it was upper 2nd at best.

I think this is pretty funny because at a lot of the houses here....they still drink even if they are dry!

Basically, they just drink on certain occasions or when they have guests (parties). The whole things is that some places care about the enforcement of the rules while others do not. Big parties will probably aways remain dry, but the floor parties will not. Sorry to dissappoint guys.

The thing is that they need to be responsible. There are sororities that break the rules about it too, but they have more of a partying house and are not as many.

In the end, people just need to be responsible.

The military is not on the same level as a fraternity or sorority. I love my organization, take it seriously...but it's NOT the military. I am NOT carrying a machine gun in the name of my country. Therefore...I should NOT be treated as a soldier.

The reason that hazing has been treated so very, very harshly is because there are too many chapters these days in most organizations to keep up with every single ones' individual traditions and determine what is kosher and what isn't. It is easier and in the end more efficient to outlaw any type of hazing whatsoever.

Fraternities and sororities should NOT condone activities which result in physical or mental trauma to a new member. Sorry. That's not what we're here for. I think new member retreats are a great idea, even though without actives being required to go as well, that's hazing, so we can't do it. I think new member retreats where they must drink x shots in 30 minutes to "prove they love XYZ" is stupid. Personally were I hazed I would have left. I am not so DESPERATE to be a Greek that I will subject myself to humiliation or harm. And I would never be able to look UP to a sister who had hurt me. I wouldn't be able to call her a sister, even.

I am not worried about who "earns" the letters in the new member period. If they do not come to the new member meetings and do not come mingle with the sisters at non required events they will view the sorority as a burden because they won't be seeing the sisterhood we have to offer...they will only be thinking about the two more hours they could have gotten in at work. Since all they have to do to "earn" the letters during that period is come to the meeting once a week (after which they recieve presents), not being able to do so indicates little to no interest in the sorority. Then they will usually decide that being in a sorority is not for them after all, and they'll leave. And that's ok. New member period isn't just for education. It's also to make sure you are ready to cement the life time committment.

In answer to the OP...honestly, I don't know. I can't imagine how detrimental it would be to close down half the organization, but on the other hand, I can't imagine condoning hazing at all...if you give them an inch they'll take a mile. It's a very, very good question. I don't envy those that must make those decisions.

Amen Squirrel Girl! I could not have said it any better....