when i lived in jacksonville, i worked downtown. near my office was a park. on nice days i liked to sit in the park and eat my sandwich, which i had made at home, because i was just starting out and lived from paycheck to paycheck. i was accosted daily by panhandlers, from "hey, lady, give me some money" to "give me your lunch" to sexual innuendos. when one really scary man kept following me on my lunch hour, i spoke to a policeman on patrol and he basically told me that while he would be happy to speak to the man and tell him to leave me alone, unless he physically harmed me, there was nothing he could really do-that he would be violating the guys rights. when i asked him about my rights, he just shrugged his shoulders. i should have been able to sit on a park bench, eat my sandwich and enjoy the weather, without being bothered. kevin and his wife should have been able to walk to the botanical gardens unsolicitied.

3 true stories:

while running an errand one day, i saw a pitiful looking man by the side of the road holding a sign. the sign said that he and his family were homeless and he was willing to work for food or diapers. it broke my heart. i called my husband in tears and he said that he was near that location and he would speak to the man and offer him a job(we owned a construction co.) when my husband offered the man a job, the man wanted to know what he would be doing. my husband told him that he would be helping to keep the shop clean and would be assisting some of the employees-it might be working with a carpenter one day, working with a concrete worker another, etc. he would start him at $10 and as he acquired skills he would receive raises. the man thought for a moment and then told my husband that no, he would rather stand on the street corner holding his sign, because he could make more money just standing there and would not have to do physical labor. near the mans outpost were several fastfood places with "help wanted" signs- my husband asked him if he had thought about getting a job at any of those businesses-the man reiterated that he could just stand on the corner and people would give him money, so why should he get a job?

story #2- hubby and i stopped in bradenton, fl at a gas station. there was a man standing at the road, holding a sign"will work for food" at the entrance to the shopping center. i remained in the car while my husband filled up the tank and also while he went in to go to the bathroom and get drinks for us. during this time, the man with the sign goes into the gas station store, comes back out with one of those big cans of beer.he walks around the side of the free standing carwash. another man comes out from behind the carwash, assumes the position on the road of the original man and holds up the "will work for food sign". i guess it was 2nd shift.

story #3-my family and my mother were in a schlotzsky's in tallahassee. as i was paying for our food, a man, who appeared to be homeless, was scrounging in his pockets for some change to buy a bowl of soup. i leaned over to the girl waiting on me, and whispered that i would like to pay for whatever that man would like to eat, but i wanted to remain anonymous. i gave her a $20 and said just to bring me the change after the man left. she undoubtedly told the man who had paid for his food, because he came up to our table and thanked us. then the girl brought me the change-he had only bought a bowl of soup. it was a very humbling experience for me.

point is, there are scammers out there-sorry people who would rather degrade themselves than try to earn an honest living. then there are those people who truly need a little help. if the situation feels right to you and you are in a position to help, do so. if the situation feels bogus or you feel uncomfortable for some reason, don't feel obligated to help.

those of us who work are contributing tax dollars to social services that are available to people in need. many of us also contribute to charitable institutions which provide social services to people in need. just tithing at church can go a long way toward helping one person down on their luck. it is our choice if and how we choose to spend our money.

I can't really pass judgement on homeless people, mainly because I don't understand it. How can you allow yourself to get that poor? Did they choose that kind of life? (I've heard stories of people who purposely did this so they wouldn't have to pay bills, taxes etc.) I'm not trying to be insensitive or anything like that. I understand that everyone's situation may be different but like Kevin said, there are shelters etc. that are available to people who need the assistance. And while I don't know what everyone does with there spare change they get from strangers, a lot of people do go right back to the store to get alcohol and drugs. That's probably what landed their butt on the streets in the first place.

As far as the 'can beggars be choosy' question, my neutrality is really kicking in. I mean, let's be real here-you're POOR. It seems to me that a poor person would get whatever they could take. But then again, they're human beings as well and they deserve quality living. I don't know. I'm straddling the fence.

Believe it or not, but New York City does not have a monopoly on services available for the homeless and unemployed. We have fewer here (obviously) and are probably better able to handle them. I was complaining about downtown OKC which is a far cry from NYC. It may come as a surprise to you that we have different programs and opportunities for the unemployed down here.

I'd imagine as much. One can rent out a tiny efficiency for in the neighborhood of $300/month. It doesn't take nearly as much to get back on one's feet here. A fast food salary will definitely pay the rent.

The word "privileged" implies that I've inherited my financial status or something. That's ridiculous. Am I privileged to work 5 days a week and to go to school at night racking up massive student loans? No. I just work my ass off. Perhaps these folks don't have the raw material to go to law school, but they sure as hell can turn in half the effort I do and stock shelves at a grocery store.

And I guess they'd have to be content to do that. To each his own.

Well, that's not happening, so your situation is hypothetical while mine is current. That stupid people "wise up" is doubtful.

I'm sure you'd like to see that. But no. I suppose if worse came to worse, my folks have a six bedroom house, so I'm sure they could find space for me.

So you're saying that your average homeless person begging for money is more likely to use it to buy a sandwich at McDonald's because they're tired of soup than on drugs?

As I said, there are those who do not want to work or clean them selves up because they find it easier, and their are those who are left in the cracks whether it becaus of physcological or physical problems!

I will never become that way and That Is My Decission!:mad:

My favorite Houston homeless guy is the one who sits by the side of I-10 and holds a sign requesting "2 cheeseburgers and a diet Coke".

Before all of GC crucifies Kevin, there was a segment on a local news broadcast almost a year ago in my area that "highlighted" panhandlers.

There was a woman and man (tagteam!) that would stand at busy intersections and ask for money and were quoted when they said "I think I can make more money here in a day than if I got a real job, so this is what I choose to do"

WTF!

So you're gonna stand there and make tax-free money while I bust my ass at work everyday?

Hmmmm I think not.

no actually it doesnt.

if a fast food salary "definitely" paysfor the rent in OKC, then parents should start kicking out their teenagers now. and if that's the case, why dont you go pick up a McDonalds application? i HIGHLY doubt minimum wage food industry pays enough to pay rent... then again it is OKC. sooooooo, maybe you have a point.



well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?" out of one side of your mouth and then say some ish like now i dont know many who come from 6-bedroom homes. but i cant imagine the loose change out the bottom of your pocket is any skin off your (or your family's) back. but your 6-bedroom house could be a total shack and your folks could be on welfare. tell me im wrong so you can prove me right that maybe there IS a twinge of priveledge in your blood.

we'll ive seen an equal # of homeless with their day's worth of change in Mcdonalds scraping for the dollar menu as i have in a liquor store buying cheap vodka. so... take what you want from that.

I'll paypal each of you $1 to shutup.

-Rudey
--Thanks.

Has anyone said "There but for the grace of God go I" in this thread yet? If not, I did.

http://www.abfnet.com/forum/images/smilies/41.gif

;)

McDonald's is not a minimum wage job. Minimum wage jobs make up around 2% of all jobs -- most of those jobs belonging to teenagers. I do know of a few teenagers who have been kicked out of their parents' homes at early ages and have been able to survive while going to high school. My wife teaches at an inner-city college prep charter school, so I do get to hear quite a few success stories along those lines.

Well actually, I'm racking up those loans while working a job to pay for living expenses. Privilege in this society is something that is earned, not given. Sure, some of us start out ahead, but that's not always enough. I'm sure we all know of kids of millionaires who end up getting written out of any inheritance and kicked to the curb because they're irresponsible... or at least I know some.

I never intimated that I had humble beginnings. The six bedroom house is about 1 year old, in a gated community on a lake. It's admittedly a pretty damn nice place. That said, while I have a great safety net both of my own and my parents' creation, I actually paid for my own undergrad schooling with a scholarship and am currently paying for law school with student loans. I haven't had to touch that trust fund yet :)

The point is that I haven't pissed away my opportunities as so many do. That's just the way our society functions. I don't owe anything more than the exorbitant taxes I pay (and will pay) to health and human services. Considering the vast sum of money going to that part of the federal budget, you should stop every wealthy person you see on the street and thank them for paying your salary (you said you're a social worker, right?). Without that top 5% or so being punished for being successful, our welfare system wouldn't be half as well funded as it is today.

Terrific.

While I may not agree with everything that Kevin has said I can empathize with him. I have had some negative experiences with very agressive panhandlers myself so I can see how he can have the feelings that he has.

see look! its me, empathizing!

ok, for real though, i'm done. i said what i needed to say many times over, and so did Kevin. we'll agree to disagree and all that jazz.

You know how they have "No Soliciting" signs for your house? They should have "I'm an asshole" stickers that you can wear in public, so people don't try to talk to you. I would totally put one on my boobs the next time I go out to a bar!