That's nice and all if it were the truth, but people in this very thread have admitted that that statement is NOT true- that if a PNM does not have a rec, she's going to get cut, and that the sorority will not procure a rec for her.

But not all chapters in a school's Panhellenic might have the same things in their national bylaws. And Panhel can't very well put on their site "if you want to pledge AST you need a rec, but if you want to pledge ASA you don't" etc etc.

Why not, if that's the policy? What good does it do anyone to confuse PNM's and to give out misinformation?

Because it might unfairly influence the girls and make it seem like some sororities are "better" or "worse" than others because they do or don't require all pledged members to have recs.

I totally concur. We have to remember that these girls are 17-18 for the most part. They are YOUNG, we have to give PNMs clear cut expectations for what they can/must/should do to maximize their consideration for membership. The double-speak needs to be eliminated.

Exactly. As Sheila pointed out 17-18 year old girls are likely to get the impression that some sororities are better or worse simply because they require recs without even meeting any of the members. The point of recruitment is for PNM's to keep an open mind and to look at all sororities fairly. It's hard for them to do that when before they even go to school they have a preconceived notion about the sororities there.

Who are these poor girls, exactly? For most campuses, recs are not *required*, and if a compelling PNM doesn't have any, the chapter can and will obtain one for her. This is true of even fairly competitive, big campus recruitments like Arizona or the California USC or Ohio State.

For the campuses where a girl without a rec doesn't have a prayer, a girl who doesn't know anyone doesn't have much of a prayer at most of the houses anyway. The top chapters pull girls they know whether through hometown connections or family connections- and they can't take all of them. A PNM who is from that area knows she needs recs because SOMEONE she knows is familiar with that system. If Sally Stranger PNM comes from nowhere and decides to go through recruitment on a lark, her chances are going to be the same whether she gets a rec from someone who barely knows her or doesn't.

But I think the number of clueless Sally Strangers is pretty small. The number of super clueless Sally Strangers who would be great fits for a big Southern Greek system even though they knew nothing about it until one second ago is even smaller. (My own guess is that the Sally Stranger who is as smart and accomplished and well-rounded as the best of the best PNMs but hasn't had the importance of going Greek bred into her from birth, would take one look at some doorchants and run.)

So it's okay to blatantly lie to girls, because, hey, it's not like they were going to even have a shot anyway? Unconnected PNMs may not have a shot, but that doesn't make it okay to lie to them.

I don't see how being misleading or straight up lying to someone is a good thing, and certainly doesn't fit into the ideals of any of our groups.

What's wrong with saying something like "Some groups require recs. Some do not. It is strongly suggested that PNM's try to obtain recs for all groups."

Now i'm not saying this as a national thing, but for schools where recs really are required by many/most groups, why can't Panhel say something like this?

I'm guessing they won't because technically, recs ARE the responsibility of the sororities (I believe that's the panhel policy, i'm not certain as I don't have a greenbook, but that's what everyone always says), but some sororities/chapters don't follow that rule. So as long as they don't admit to it, it's okay?

I understand different campuses have different cultures and ways of doing thing. My issue is with lying to PNM's about it.

Ok - If a campus is not heavy into recs, can't the book say - Recs are not required, if they are needed the SORORITY will obtain them for you.

On a campus that is reliant on recs can't the book say - Recs are required.

We need to be clear on our expectations to our PNMs, just like we are clear to our pledges and members.

totally agree with 33 and little e.

greek life is not utopian or politically correct. pretending that recs. are not required is wrong. i think it is unfair that before recruitment, panhellenics do not spell out in black and white that it is "highly recommended that pnms obtain letters of recommendation from alumnae".

at ultra large recruitments, it is just so easy to cut a girl with no rec., rather than to have someone phone someone in her hometown to see if they know her, and ask them to write a rec. why work that hard, when you already have hundreds of girls to chose from who do have a rec. for your chapter? a pnm would have to be someone pretty special to work that hard for.

jocelyn, i think it is to be pol. correct. i would venture to guess which ones you are speaking of...if at least one of them is one of the ones i am also thinking of, you are so right...if you don't have recs. to most of the sororities on that campus, you will be cut.

But isn't this also true of chapters with different grade requirements and different dues? That's not a reason to pretend to PNM's that the same GPA will get your foot in the door at every house, or that all the houses cost the same. Seems like most schools are pretty straightforward about that info, chapter by chapter.

Yes, and I'm sure there are girls out there who think the most expensive sorority must be the best or the one w/ the highest GPA requirement has the smartest girls. They're wrong, and hopefully there aren't many rushees out there who think that way.

It's kind of apples and oranges though - I am referring to sororities WHO HAVE IT IN THEIR NATIONAL BYLAWS that all pledged members must have a rec.

This issue of whether or not we can say that recs are required was discussed a lot when I was at UGA, and the basic Panhel line was that because Panhel's national position is that it is the responsibility of the chapter to obtain recs, UGA's Panhel cannot say anything different on the site. I am sure that this is the reason that you don't see "You need recs for ABC, DEF, and GHI in order to pledge them" on any other schools' sites.

Some individual sorority chapters strongly suggest that PNMs should get recs prior to recruitment on their sites (I know of one house at UGA and one at LSU that do this, and I am sure there are others), but we can't really say "You need to obtain a rec to come back for Round 2/3/Prefs" in a definitive way if that is "technically" not the policy.

Yes, I know it sucks.

Thanks, that's what I was trying to say. :D