We have the same policy

I think it's a ridiculous arguement, one about splitting hairs and such, particularly the rule about your letters on other chapters' shirts.

The issue as I see it has two key items. 1) Non-initates (whether pledges or non-members) don't know what the letters mean, and so there is no "respect" and 2) Your worried about people doing things wearing your letters that might reflect poorly on your organization.

• If your letters are on a Greek Week shirt, such that is put out by the Office of Greek Affairs, then everyone's letters are out there and by wearing that shirt, you're representing your Greek community. End of story, it doesn't matter that your letters are on there, and people don't know what they mean, but you know what, they don't know what the other 10, 15, 30 other sets of letters mean either. What makes your organization so much more special.
  
• If it's because the pledges who will likely become full members don't know the significance, you can't tell me there aren't other things that you can restrict usage of. Some people have already mentioned crests and insignias. My own chapter bans the use of "Wooglin" and "-kai-" by pledges and they aren't allowed into our chapter room as a sort of deference to the active members. Let them have the letters, so that when they go out and do good things, people can recognize them. That's the best publicity you can get.
  
• If you're worried about future members doing disgraceful things, then you need to look at who you're pledging, and what your pledge education program is teaching them. One of the first things should be don't do anything stupid with letters on. AND EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY!!! This whole "you don't understand" BS is not legitimate and completely arbitrary b/c within months they will know.
  
  Tell them that they are representing not only themselves, but also the chapter AND the larger organization as a whole. The reputation that they wish to build for themselves is now tied to the actions of others who bear the name of your org. and any sort of action (whether it's a drunk driver in another state, or their big bro/big sis) is going to reflect on them whehter they like it or not. That is a more legitimate reason and one that serves to bring them in to the idea that the chapter is only part of a bigger whole. And it is a lesson that remains important throughout their lifetime, not just when they find out the meaning. This is one way to battle the alumni apathy that so many complain about.

Really in the grand scheme of things this is piddly. We should be worried far more about many other things than this.

That is My Kansas Dude!!!!!:)

You make a TON of sense with Your Post!:cool:

In LXA, New Associates can wear Letters, they cannot wear anything with The Coat of Arms. They can and must wear their New Associate Pin in proper attire.

The ones who seem to make the major thing about Letters are Sororitys, and Why, I have no clue? Maybe they are not proud enough to show the women they Associated.

We encourage our New Members to wear letters. Our letters are on the New Member pin so our Nationals is fine with it. The only thing that we have in my chapter is that we don't encourage NM to wear stitches because we want they Bigs to give them their first pair the day of initiation. They can wear letter screen printed or if it is spelled out its fine. As for the our crest only intiated members are allowed to wear it.

Thank you! I agree wholeheartedly!

Actually, some groups - like ASA & AST - do have an open motto that corresponds to the letters. This is why I've never seen anything wrong with our pledges wearing them.

However, I would never say that just because we do it that way, some other group who doesn't learn the meaning of the letters until initiation should do the same thing.

We had a new member, that right before initiation, I was talking to her on instant messenger. One of the ways we sign our emails or letters is "Xi Love" and she asked me "After I'm initiated tomorrow, can I say 'Xi Love' too?" and I told her "You could have always been saying it, but tomorrow you'll find out what it means." and she said "Xi Means something? Wow! That's crazy - I always thought it just meant 'Xi'."

Thank you, thats exactly what I was thinking whiile reading this thread. Greek Week shirts with everyone's letters show are PR for the Greek Community. One organization saying "no no, dont use our letters, use AEPhi instead (yeah, I'm picking on you, but only cause you used it as an example;)) is going to look retarded, and to some, even stuck up. (Hey - why does that one say AEPhi on it, but the rest are greek symbols?) I can understand not wanting one of your non-affiliated friends to wear a shirt with your letters, or something like that, but if its a school/greek spirit shirt? Get over it. The only people who should be wearing it are other Greeks, who understand the significance.

I do love it when good ol common sense prevails! :)

Ok, this is a serious comment to everyone, not just the poster I quoted. Folks love to come on GC and say "NPHC and multicultural greeks never participate in Greek Week with us! Why are you guys so anti-social?", yet you also say that you dont care what an org's protocol is, you're just gonna throw their letters on your shirt without permission. Seems disrespectful to me. If you KNOW groups who are participating don't want their letters on a shirt that non members will be wearing, why would you tell them to "just suck it up"?

What happened to respect for the way other orgs choose to run themselves? Or did that go out the window?

why would you not want to participate?

I am sure All Letters in any Greek Organization have significant meanings within their groups.

So, no one knows what they mean untill said "Pledges", New Associates go through Ritual and they are explained to them.

Isnt showing letters a form of advertising?

Dont You want people on campus to know that these are New Possible full fledged members?

Do You want to hide Your Light and name under a basket?

Do You or doint You want others see and know them?

Would it not help to recruit Possible other New Members?

How secret do You want Your Organization to be?

Example:

I am walking across campus, in a class room, etc., I have letters on as a New Associate, someone comes up to me to ask a question about LXA or what is LXA. I invite them over to meet others of the chapter and see if they are interested. He is, walla, a New Recruit!:cool: Chapter grows and maybe they have friends who are interested also!:)

Aint rocket science is it?

From the way it was practiced with my chapter, and I think our fraternity as a whole...

Wearing a letter-shirt (a shirt with ONLY your organization's letters) is not allowed for our Phikeia...because it is an inaccurate representation that you are a member of Phi Delta Theta. Until you are initiated, that is not the case, although you hold a bid for membership.

Our Phikeia (our term for new members or pledges) are welcomed to wear shirts with Phi Delta Theta spelled out, or shirts with the collective letters of the Greek organizations on campus.

OPhiA isn't on Panhel and doesn't do Greek Week, since we aren't a social. But if anyone put our letters on any kind of shirt without asking, or worse, knowing we didn't agree to it, I can't imagine how anyone could *not* think that was rude.

I don't think we have a national protocol about it (anyone know?), but our chapter doesn't encourage non-members wearing letters. I don't want other people encouraging non-members to wear our letters for us!

It is my understanding the only item new members of Kappa Kappa Gamma cannot wear is our badge. That is for initiated members only.

Letters, crest, symbols, whatnot can all be worn from the moment a member accepts her bid.