You didn't. Coastalpike did. See the last post on the first page of this thread.

There were a couple of comments in your reply that don't fit into what I would consider respectful, though. But for the sake of keeping the discussion alive, I'll overlook them.

I also agree that 7 years seems overly harsh -- even if the allegations were true.

It does seem that with two other Greeks, two advisors and the University people that the investigative agency should have been fair -- but not knowing the dynamics between the on-campus GLOs, it's hard to tell really.

In his recent post, Coastalpike did say something that all of us need to think about -- whether there was unfairness in the reporting or not, the tendency for parents to sue universities and the outside political pressures on administrations can sometimes make the school rush to judgement or over-react. Greek Letter Organizations need to understand that the letters on our houses can often become targets. We are, unfortunately, paying for years of built up reputations. The undergraduates of today are under a microscope.

I'm anxious to hear more about the investigation.

If that is the case, then I take an affront to being called and idiot.

This is not Fratty.com or what ever it was called it is GreekChat, not abuse people, be racist, or use language that You damn sure would not use in front of Your Mother or Father.

To all of You that came over, You do not have to stay here. You can go to other Sites. If some continually act as You have acted, you will have Posts Deleted.

If You want to have fun and be of Greek help, stay, if not, then please move on.

I respect anyones opinion until it gets out of line in some aspects.

I would hope some of You do the very same thing.

Hold on moderator god.....I didn't call anyone an idiot......not you, not anyone. Frankly, I tried to make legitimate posts...but they all got deleted.. That is why the board got spammed the otther night. Childish Yes....Liquor involved yes....But we had several legit threads deleted just because yall wanted to be a**holes about it.

What is wrong with a thread titled SEC Greek Life in the Greek Life Thread. or Southern Greek Life? or Greek Life vs. GDI life.....nothing is wrong with those. Furthermore, I have not said anything blatantly racist that I can remember. Allthoug on this board, I could say coffee and someone would perceive it racist.

Its an online message board...Im sorry if im not going to take it very seriously. Besides, most of the "irrelevant" posts we have made, were obviously humourous and if a rushee was looking at it and was stupid enough to believe it, i believe that would qualify him for a black ball, even outside of the south for sheer stupidity.

This is my first post on the chat so let me give you some back ground without boring you to death. I am a former president of a KA chapter, so I have delt with these kind of situations first hand. I also have been working in the prehospital care field on an ambulance for 4 years and have seen first hand the effects of alcohol on my peers.

Let me say the Delt Alum has some very valid points and what everyone has to remember is that there are a lot of different people in play here.

You have the GA or Greek Advisor who has to answer to the university (and by the way, at least at my school received daily criminal reports form both the Campus Police and Off Campus Cops.) Yes I said the off campus cops. You must be wondering how. Well any time a police officer would see Greek Letters or find out this was a group of a Campus Greek org they would notify the GA. It sucks but it is the world we "greeks" choose to associate ourselves with.


You have the UNIVERSITY that is over the GA and has to look out for the Campus Risk Management. This means taking action on the "oganization as a whole". This is the biggest and hardest part that greek members do not understand. If you are wearing letters and only YOU get in a fight you need to remember that you are putting you chapter at risk. This is a concept that I preached to my chapter for months.
I will just mention the other people that are involved
Hospital - Required to report Alcohol situation if
1. Underage or 2. Find out a hint of hazing and with greeks it is in everyone's mind
Cops - Are going to investigate intill they are blue in the face if the smell out hazing or alcohol related incidents within the greek community

Okay lets get to the situation.

You have two members of an "Greek" org that went to a couple of parties and drank to much. Drank so much that they drank themselves into a Alcohol Induced Coma. That a lot of alcohol fellas. Were is the fraternal bond looking out for these guys. They must have had signs. Ok. I heard thay had PEC (Pre existing conditions). Did anyone know about these conditions and if yes where was the "brother help a brother"

Finally,
Try to step out of the box and look at this from the perspective of the kids mother or the GA at your school


Fraternally

KA ALUM
Lets see how much I stirr up with this one

# 1, I am not a Mod God. I am tired from two things.

One working 11 hours dailey and dealing with people who try to profess that they are Greeks with any stature.

If some have been trying to post decent posts there is no problem as I am sure You will agree. But some of the other posts do get tedious and tiresome, let alone entirely stooopid!

a few things:
1. the pre-existing condition could have been a number of things, and you cant assume that they were known.
2. im a big supporter of personal repsonsibility, so if you drink yourself under the table, you only have yourself to balme.
3. Jsut because cops are looking to nail us, doesnt mean we need to play into these stereotypes by posting every negative thing that happens all over the internet. Is it a serious situation, yes. Does that warrant a huge controversy on a nationwide web-site, no.
4. If these kids were getting that drunk, it was going to happen anyway, in a dorm, at a bar, at some other party, etc. so to even attempt to blame it ont he system is ludicrous. Irresponsibility isnt something thats developed overnight.

Response

1.) Very true never assumed that any one new about it. But these are things that need to be brought to light. I kept a medical history on my members when I was president. Let me tell you it came in handy on more than one occasion.

2.) I am also a supporter of the personal responsibility, dont let what I write stirr you off course. But we are members of "Greek Organizations' We need to stup up and help out. Just keep in the back of your minds that what you do could put you charter in jepordy.

3.) Hazing and Alcohol are a HUGE media stir and we should know that
4.) So what are we saying that it is ok. to get obliterated as long as it does not affect the chapter. Come on that is not brother hood.

Personally, Ive never been asked for a single piece of medical history by the fraternity and I think itd be kind of wierd to do, but thats jsut me. im glad we agree on the personal responsibility thing, but when someone says, stop drinking, if im drunk im not going to listen to them, and i believe most would agree that you do what YOU want to do when drunk, not what others tell oyu to. I know that hazing and alcohol are big media stirs, but where im from, again maybe a culture difference, those are accepted risks of greek life. While the community loves to makes sure that we arent going out of control, they also give us some leeway in that if some kid starts puking, its not the systems fault. And yes im saying its ok to get obliterated. My point was that with the kids that drink themselves into the hospital, they wouldve had similar problems regardless of any greek system. Im not saying that if theyre not around we shouldnt care, but rather if theyre going to be irresponsible, then greek life isnt going to, nor should it be expected to, change him overnight.

Conditions
 

I forgot all about the conditions. One of the pledges has diabetes and the other one had some kind of pancreatic (sp?) stomach disorder.

And to respond to the commet about brothers not letting other members drink too much. These kids really did not drink that much. However towards the end of the night, they really were looking pretty bad. Most of our guys couldnt figure out why they were so bad but to be safe took them to the hospital. Yeah it eventually turned into us getting kicked off for 7 years but I am proud of them for doing the right thing and taking them to the hospital.

As far as I am concerned these 2 pledges had no business drinking alchohol in the first place. If one of our guys would have known about their conditions there is no way they would have let them drink. A little too late now though..

That's very commendable -- especially since in many places (don't know about this one) doctors are required to report incidents like this one (as mentioned above). It is important to put the possibility of sanctions aside when brothers or others appear to be in distress.

This thread has the potential for a great discussion on several points, so from this point on, let's try to put the finger pointing on both sides aside.

Thanks.

To coastalpike:

Earlier in the thread you said that the University suspended the chapter but hasn't provided the chapter with any details. You also mentioned that you were an alumnus (not an active brother) of that chapter.

I find it hard to believe that the University suspended your chapter without the chapter having a clue (I'm speaking as a Greek Advisor here...). Are you sure the Chapter President (or someone else) hasn't discussed this with the Greek Advisor, and is just saying they haven't been given details in order to "cover their butt"?

I ask because I have dealt with a chapter before that has a rather large judicial file, has had quite a few sanctions, and when the President and Advisor received letters detailing this info (and had several conversations with me about it, went through the judicial process, etc.), they never told the whole chapter the situation. Seriously...chapter members were pissed at me because "I was out to get them". It was only when I wrote a three page long letter outlining everything the chapter had failed to do in the past 2 years and sent it to every member's personal mailbox did they finally "get it". Long story short, the chapter president was failing to communicate...he just didn't tell anyone (he definitely didn't tell alumni), and flat out lied to National Consultants. The sad part is he trained the next chapter president to do exactly the same thing.

So...I'd double check with the chapter's faculty advisor (the one who works on campus) and see if you can get any information from them. Also, there would have to be someone from your HQ who knows everything that's happened and might be willing to share with alumni. I know that not every Greek Advisor is perfect and has the best interest of the students in mind, but most of us aren't horrible people.

(let's not turn this into "bash the GA" either....there are some good discussion points in this whole situation we can focus on).

PsychTau

I think you are right that most people have problems in telling someone else to slow down or stop drinking...and that most drunk people don't listen.

Any ideas on how we can teach/empower our chapter members to approach those brothers/sisters who need to slow down? What about instilling the "culture" within the chapter that if a brother/sister asks you to slow down/stop drinking, you respect that and do what they say? (Some sororities have a really effective tap on the shoulder/codeword/three strikes system that members really respond to).

PsychTau

Every year we have a few newly initiated guys who constantly get too drunk and throw up all the time and what not. So we ridicule them for having the tolerance of little girls, and they eventually slow down until their tolerance builds up.