But if mining companies know that they can have unsafe conditions that end up killing workers, and then not be held accountable when those unsafe conditions do kill workers, where is the incentive to provide a safe work environment?

That was pretty much my original point as to why I hoped the families would sue. I'm really interested in finding out more about the violations and how many were truly serious.

That shouldn't be enough for them, that is in no way enough for them. It won't bring back their family members, and it doesn't changed the fact that the officers of this company lied to its employees about the safety of the mines. Companies that operate in this manner should be shut down immedately by the state. Have we learned nothing from Enron?

While this is true (to the point of being nearly tautological), it doesn't really address the actual situation very well - we don't know if the explosion was even preventable, or related to a safety violation, do we?

I would argue mining is an inherently dangerous profession . . .


Wait - where did we get to 'lying about the safety of the mines'? Doesn't the 'never bringing them back' argument go AGAINST huge sums of money, especially when it may be needed to fix the current issues?

Also - could this be ANY LESS related to Enron? Seriously, people, stop rolling Enron out any time there's corporate scandel - it's not even top 10.

I'm quotting you a lot, but please do not think I am picking on you (I'm not, I promice.)

You make good points, but I think maybe the State of WVa could have done something like sending state inspectors, etc.

I saw on the news that the same roof had collapased 20 times in 2005.

20 times!!!!! That is an outrage! Fix the freaking roof, don't just sweep it away.

Don't worry - I'm not offended. Actually, both the state and OSHA should have been all over them. The only possible "acceptable" excuse is that the mine was just sold about a month ago, and when you get cited, you have X amount of days to fix the problem. Possibly, they had several more days to do the right thing - but it's still not going to bring back their loved ones.

Supposedly there was a Federal Mine Inspector on site every day the mine was open. I'm reasonably sure he is the man interviewed by NBC today who said he felt the mine was safe, or he would have closed it.

Interesting that in an article I read the other day, the United Mine Workers had very good things to say about the new company who has owned and operated the mine only since November even though they don't represent the employees there.

Tonight on NBC Nightly News, the UMW was bad mouthing the company.

Opportunistic? It looks that way to me.

In the same story, other employees of the mine themselves had good things to say about the company and said they didn't feel unsafe in the mine.

Mining is just a damned dangerous job, and as long as people go underground, there will be accidents and deaths.

Not meaning this to be any kind of a joke, Mother Nature can be a real bitch...

Exactly. I think there should be an investigation, but I bet if the whole "miscommunication" hadn't happened, the mine company's image wouldn't be bad mouthed as much.

Mining is inherently dangerous, however, there are safety regulations that are set up to mitigate that danger. Not being a mining expert or having any knowledge of the situation (I actually think it's pretty overhyped and irrelevant compared to other things that somehow don't make the news cycle), I have no idea what took place, if it was preventable, etc. other than what I've learned from a cursory reading of headlines, this thread, and other sources.

As for what is generally the case with explosions though, it's typically pretty easy to prove where they came from, and reaching back last semester to my torts class, when a person's injury would not have ordinarily occured without someone's negligence, the thing that caused the harm is under the exclusive control of the defendant, the type of harm that occured was what might have been a reasonably foreseeable consequence of that type of negligence, and the plaintiff did not contribute to the injury through their own negligence, there's a presumption of negligence. There may of course be a lot of other regulations, statutes, etc. etc. that are involved here, none of which I have a clue about, but depending on what caused the explosion, these families may or may not have a case.

-- also whether the violation was related to a violation of the safety regulations is another item that might create a presumption of negligence.

Assuming all that is true, I'd expect punitives to be through the roof here considering that this company seems to have simply ignored safety recommendations and citations for violations of the regulations. There are big bucks here in all likelihood.

Quote:

Also - could this be ANY LESS related to Enron? Seriously, people, stop rolling Enron out any time there's corporate scandel - it's not even top 10.

I agree. Enron = completely irrelevant. This thing is interesting all by itself.

Clearly she's retarded. If she wasn't, she wouldn't have been a suspect in the first place.

And I think that's sort of the bottom line. It is a terrible tragedy. However, these men and their families knew how dangerous this kind of job is-that's why it pays so well. In this day and age, any hazardous occupation such as this IS heavily regulated (unlike in the past where people died much more frequently). But there is only so much that can be done. Things will happen, no matter how many regulations and inspections there are.

Someone somewhere (God or whoever you believe in) decided it was time for these men to go. Sometimes things happen that we'll never understand.

Kevin, you went a long way to arrive at this point (or lack thereof?), but I agree with you - they may or may not, so let's not jump to conclusions.

I would assume this case will never reach trial, so no punitives will be reached (period) - although I'd guess the PR disaster would earn the families some decent dime. To my knowledge, WV is a moderately bad location for most plaintiffs, both in terms of verdicts and damage amounts (although more so for awards than actual verdicts) . . . obviously some of this could be mitigated by the fact that there's strong sympathy for miners in the area, but I'm guessing you underestimate how much the 'gen-x/y' factor inflates punitives, and how little that effect will be present in this jurisdiction.

OK - this is WAY outside the scope of the thread, but I can hit you with a little more 'educated guesswork' via PM if you really care.

I've heard that CNN may have illegally tapped the comm lines here and that's how the miscommunication happened.

Has anyone else heard this? I don't know if there is a shred of truth or not, but it wouldn't suprise me.

Highly unlikely. It is possible that some of the news crews radios might have been on the same frequency as the rescue team -- but that's also unlikely -- the bands are usually fairly far apart.

You're not confusing this with the story that the NSA may have tapped CNN's lines are you?

This was a true Tragedy of enormous proportions:(

I have no clue what These Miners were being paid for this dangerous job. WV is not a wealthy State by any means is it?

Is this type of Job Dangerous, of course it is. Just drive down a road and see the rock formations along it. You may then understand what I am talking about. There are shelves of rock formations and the earth is changing all of the time with shifts and climate changes.

I dont know if anyone realizes the differnt types of Coal that is Mined between the SE and The NW. Because of EPA, the two coals are shipped to the opposite areas from where they are located.

SE Kansas was well know for Strip Mining but it became the wrong kind of coal . Strip Mining is where it is dug by dredging from the surface down, not in holes in the earth.

It was also reported that someone with a Red Cross Uniform Reported this and they deny it was one of their People.

If one really sees and watches the New, all of a sudden, China is having a lot of Mining Problems. This is the first Mining Disaster in a very long time in the US.

It is a Hazardous Job to be sure and I would not do it.

God Bless The Miners and Their Familys. :(