Re: Somewhat relates to this thread - Holiday trees
 

Well lets see the Druids/Neo-Druids celebrate with a decorated tree... but it has to be a live one; cutting one down to bring inside is a blasphemy for them. The Asturu(sp?)/Heathens (seriously they call themselves that) celebrate outside with a tree as well - of course they don't decorate with dead animals and blood offerings to Odin like in the old days... other Pagans that follow the Greek or Roman tradition also celebrate with an evergreen tree use in the celebrations of Dionysus/Bacchus around this time too.

Of course there are Christian denomonations that actually prohibit Christmas Trees... or at least the attachment of the birth of Christ to a Christmas Tree... something to do with the Bible.

LOL - Shoot and I just mailed my Christmas cards this weekend. ;)

Bill O'Reilly is an idiot - a cabdriver with a microphone. That doesn't change the fact that the "Holiday Party" used to be called a Christmas Party.

I see a distinct difference between being considerate of other faiths and the active effort to remove all vestiges of the Christian faith from the season. In other words, I won't get offended as a Christian if someone says "Happy Holidays" as long as I can say "Merry Christmas" with impunity.

How are all vestiges of Christianity being removed from the season?


Are Chruches being banned from celebrating Christmas? Are Churches prohibitted from displays of faith? Cause that's the only way I see it being removed...

I'm not sure how we went from a "Holiday Party" to church worship, but when Wal-Mart employees are not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" to their customers, it strikes me as more of an active campaign to eliminate all references to the Christian holy day of Christmas.

The best analogy I can come up with at the moment is that of the "Just Married" shoe polish tradition on cars. A couple who has just gotten married want to share their happiness on their occasion by announcing it to everyone else. In return, most people who see the car are not offended by it but rather are happy for them.

The same can apply to Christmas. If a Christian says "Merry Christmas" to a non-Christian or invites them to a Christmas Party, the only thing the non-Christian has to do is be happy for the fact that the Christian is celebrating an important event. There is nothing else that needs to be done.

OK to satisfy you, then you should say "Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, and may you have a blessed Festivus" to cover all areas while not stripping the message of the whole Christian reference.

-Rudey

So you are advocating that Wal-Mart instead of promoting an inclusive and respectful message, instead promote an exclusively Christian one? But what about those denomonations that don't see Christmas as celebratory but as solemn or sad?

As for your analogy, well it's a pretty empty arguement as the "just married" tradition is varried and practiced by many faiths.

Of course my entire point is that the message seems to be becoming exclusively anti-Christian.

Again, the analogy was not to suggest that it was faith-specific, it was only to point out that if one person chooses to celebrate something, the other person can react with tolerance instead of recoiling in horror.

All these non sequiturs are making my head spin.

There is a huge difference between not being exclusively Christian and anti-Christian... and saying Happy Holidays or having a Holiday Party isn't anti-Christian - because it includes Christianity.

Besides in the Mediaeval tradtions this was known as the Holy Days or Holidays with Christ's Mass being but one aspect of the celebrations.

I thought it followed - or at least was all tied into the central arguement... which can be a little hard to follow when come from two related but different perspectives.

Do you realize that the last arguement you made is actually somewhat supportive of the reasoning behind "Happy Holidays"? Basically the fact that others celebrate this season differently should cause some Christians to be so reactionary or horrified by it - different denomonations and faiths all have Holy celebrations now; so why not react with tolerance instead of horror, or decrying the fact "it's anti-Christian"?

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster uses a pasta tree decorated with eyes, ornaments, and lights.

Oh, this is rich....

We need to get most of GC treated for mulitple personality disorder.

I think not. The "holiday" parties, etc, to which I am referring were previously called Christmas Parties, Christmas parades, Christmas concerts, Christmas cards for one patently obvious reason - they were being celebrated, marched, performed, and mailed by people celebrating a Christian holiday. Now they have to walk on eggshells to avoid "offending" a non-Christian with the mere mention of the word "Christmas".

It seems to me that the last socially-acceptable bias in society is against Christians. One needs only to watch the Southpark episode where a statue of the Virgin Mary "bleeds out her ass" to come to this conclusion. Accordingly, all of the Christmas idiocy is not because of some warm and fuzzy desire to include all, but rather to exclude the Christian influence on the holidays.

This assumption is pretty much false - thus, it is actually your conclusion which does not follow.

Christmas concerts at a high school, Christmas parties for an entire office, and Christmas parades put on by a city council are not, and never were, exclusively for and by Christians - they were put on by a mixed group of people, the majority of whom were Christian.

Now, as the number of non-Christians becomes larger and more vocal, it can only be viewed as progress to be inclusive, rather than exclusive.

Bottom line: your assumptions do not actually match your conclusion that "Happy Holidays" or the like is actively anti-Christian. "Inclusive" and "anti-Christian" are not synonymous, nor do they necessarily occupy the same space.


If I give you 100 dollars for no reason whatsoever, then later insist on only giving you 60 dollars for no reason, you are not being discriminated against because I reduced your completely unnecessary benefit.

Even with inclusionary changes, Christians are NOT subject to overwhelming bias or discrimination - they're simply getting 60 cents on their previous dollar. It can NOT be possible for you to miss this.

I can tell that you didn't read my post...So I'll post it again for you:

his is just my opinion as a non-Christian.

Using "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is better for me because its inclusive of everyone, and its an acknowledgement that everyone isn't a Christian, and that they still be will celebrating a holiday important to their faith at this time of year, and hat you wish them well (I think that was a run-on sentence).

I'm not so offended, but I do get a little irritated that people constantly assume that I'm celebrating Christmas. "Happy holidays" to me is more respectful of everyone's differences and realizing that there are those who are not Christian, so Christmas has no significance to them. For me, its just another day on the calendar, nothing special.

You are complaining about having to walk on eggshells, but that's not the case. Its about including everyone in your well wishes.