This demonstrates my point even further. When Pat Robertson suggested that Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez should be assassinated (dare I say, "wiped off the map"?), he was soundly rebuked by Christians of all denominations.

Since I'm Catholic, I will refer you to the 1965 document Nostra Aetate, paragraph 3.

"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."

This is what I would like to believe about Islam...

To your first point: I just explained in my last post that their is not a central figure that speaks for every Muslim. But I bet that if you go and speak to Muslims (especially in this country), they will speak out against those who harm others in the name of Islam.

As for the quote, everything written there is true, if you did some reading and speaking to actual Muslims (instead of just taking what you see on tv as gospel) then you would KNOW that those things are true.

Here is a good website to begin to get some TRUTH about Islam. I hope you read it with a sincere heart and that you gain some understanding.

www.islamicity.com

This strikes me as funny. Actually, its people like you who should be educated on the Middle East and Islam in general. Once again, you are mixing up religion and politics. I can differentiate between the two at least.

No, I'm sorry this doesn't prove your point - simply saying the Christians of all denominations rebuke Robertson to argue that all Christians disagreed with his statement is faulty logic - at least in the context of this debate... after all I can say exactly the same thing about the comments by the Iranian president: that Muslims of all denominations objected to his remarks... in fact some were quite vocal in their vilification of his remarks (it looked as if one Sunni cleric was going to burst a blood vessel on Al Jazeera denouncing the president as a political hack trying to pander to the ignorant, and the hateful ,as a means to support his tyranny). Just because it hasn't been seen on Fox or CNN doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

Actually, I've already pointed out that religion and politics are related especially as it applies to Islam (as an entire way of life, not just a theological invention). If I "should be educated", then who's going to do it - Al Jazeera TV?

The indifference toward what fellow Muslims say about wiping Israel off the map is quite telling. The silence is deafening, as they say.

Let me also say that I'm very touched by everyone's concern for poor ignorant ole me. The repeated exhortations to "get educated" are accepted with the same spirit in which they are given.

If you want to argue that the Iranian president doesn't speak for all of Islam, you might want to tell that to him. From Reuters: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/OLI653921.htm

"The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland," he said.

He seems to be under the impression that he does speak for all of you, and so did the 3,000 students to whom he was addressing who chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America".

No, you can some credible information elsewhere such as books, classes, talking to educated people, etc..

Again, the Israel/Palestine is a political issue. I like to separate my religion and politics.

Please, I beg you, LET IT GO!

The Iranian president can THINK that he speaks for all Muslims and that's his right.

But when you have people telling you that he DOES NOT speak for them, why do you keep harping on the point? Are you trying to convince me or something?

You're better off listening to those Muslims who live and work among you, instead of someone halfway around the world.

The leader of Iran is religious. There are no political leaders no matter how you splice it. Qom runs everything.

-Rudey

The problem is that you don't speak for all Muslims. Visiting a mosque doesn't give you a clear understanding of all Muslims.

The fact remains that the Iranian president is but one aspect of hate and violence accepted by the Muslim (largely Arab) world. Seriously they play television series on the Elders of Zion in the "moderate" Muslim Arab countries. This is akin to Wilson watching "The Birth of the Nation" in the white house. Memri.org is filled with exact translations of what comes out of the middle east.

Nobody speaks for all Muslims. There is a huge population of Muslims and their respective nations that support violence and hate. You may not and many Muslims may not, but you can't just turn a blind eye to that.

I want to say there is little for the peaceful Muslims to say or do but I can't. If the hateful ones can raise their voice so much and take such actions, then the peaceful ones must figure a way out to counteract that. For example, many can start by protesting the suicide bombers that kill everyone in all these countries instead of protesting Iraq, Israel, and any other Western country.

-Rudey

Well then, let's say that the starting point for me to "raise my voice" (as you put it) is to share on GC that I don't agree with those who use Islam for their own political gain. I've said it many times. Somehow, its get lost in cyberspace *shrugs*

I didn't understand the last sentence. Are you saying that peaceful Muslims spend their days protesting Iraq and Israel? Or are you saying we should start? I'm confused. :confused:

Was it a political issue in 1945? 1900? 1800?

I am saying I have seen protest after protest against Iraq and Israel by Muslims but have yet to see a single protest against suicide bombers. It's funny to protest the American involvement in Iraq but to be perfectly fine with the Jihadists blowing themselves up.

-Rudey

Ok, I understand you now.

I can't speak for others, but I've never been in a demonstration against Israel or Iraq.

And once again for the record, I don't agree with Jihadists blowing themselves and others up. I don't see how anyone could find taking someone else's life honorable.

BTW, will you help me write my letter to France?

Actually Rudy...

Protest over Jordan terror attacks

Thousands of flag-waving Jordanians congregated in Amman in the March of the Nation, a noisy demonstration against the deadly terrorist attacks that struck the kingdom last week.

Three suicide bombers killed 59 people in their attacks on hotels in the capital on November 9....

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2262912005