option b

I hate, hate, hate when people refer to fetuses as "babies" :mad:

I am inclined to agree with you here, but that is a can of worms that is probably better left closed on a place like GC.

This needs to be touched up just a tad. The issue that Levitt brings up in Freakonomics is not simply poor people. There are many more factors in place than simply Socioeconomic status.

If I remember correctly, (the book is out in my car and I don't feel like getting it), what is more specifically argued is that the women who are most likely to get an abortion, are also the most likely to have characteristics of mothers that lead to an increased level of delinquency. These women who are most likely to get an abortion are more likely to be young, single, uneducated, substance abusers, victims of abuse and so forth. Socioeconomic status is only one piece of that puzzle.

Levitt doesn't go far into how these are things that predict higher levels of crime,(if I remember correctly), but I graduated with a degree in Sociology, so I have heard and seen plenty on this topic including a full 300 level course just on Juvenile Delinquency.

Each of these factors is a predictor for juvenile delinquency or is a predictor for lowered levels of things like "attachment" to their children which is associated with higher levels of crime (how attached would you expect someone to be to an unwanted child). Further, their position in life is more likely to make them live in areas with heightened crime rates, which in turn increases the likelihood of crime participation.

Because this is a complex issue, with many facets, I don't think that one can simply boil it down to a case of rich vs. poor (unlike a lot of other things.)

White House condemns Bennett's remarks
Posted on Fri, Sep. 30, 2005

Associated Press


WASHINGTON - The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

"The president believes the comments were not appropriate," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Read the rest here

If anything regarding abortions came out, I bet the white house would condemn it...

-Rudey

I think the whole economy of Nigeria is based on phony letters and emails, seeking to trick gulible people out of their bank account numbers, and their money.

I've also heard that Egypt has a lot of anti-tourist crime.

And then there are the dictators commiting crimes against humanity.

Africa is no paradise and is not crime free.

PS: I apologize for my earlier post. Al Franken actually was on Bennett's side on today's AA show. His (I'll laugh at anything you say, Al) sidekick was very critical though.

May have been the first opposing view ever heard on Al's show, maybe even on all of AA.

uhhh, i don't think i said that.

One time they intercepted a huge bunch of letters from the Nigerian bunch to "prospects", and even the stamps on the letters were counterfeits.

You had better believe that I really, seriously and honestly think that this man could have it in his heart to kill babies of African descent... And no, I do not think that he even cares if his comments upsets people because I imagine he is getting paid by the soundbite.

And folks like me (conspiracy theorists) honestly think that the there is a 4th Reich actually implementing the start of the eugenic wars...

But then again it all comes to having game skillz... If dude had any, he wouldn't worrying about any woman being pregnant or considering abortion as an option. Because a player always thinks pregnancy is the woman's problem, the player will always play with whomever... The player wants to spread his seed--cast it into the wind... And really, if that's a crime, in and of itself, then I guess it is... But a woman outta know who she's fckin' with--whether or not he's a player...

Why Billy boy is worried about Black women wanting or not wanting to abort anything out of their bodies is really the questions I want to know? Did a Black woman just have his baby or something? :rolleyes:


So are you suggesting that if poor women have abortions, crime rates would go down and that's a proven link?

Because statistically speaking, African American women are actually having more abortions, but that ain't made one dent into the African American crime rate in the African American community... Folks still are robbin' and stealin' up in there... If you just base it on the stats, alone...

And if it is true, then crime rates ought to go down as one's socioeconomic class increases (namely by education)... So apparently, that has not occured--so from deductive reasoning--if you are actually in the 'hood or the ghetto where a bulk of poor African American's live, then if you gave them more money and services, the crime rates outta decrease??? When's the last time you've been in the ghetto?

And replacement of words for one thing or another is semantics... Once things are said and folks really know how you feel, you cannot take it back... Because if you said it, you meant it, period...

You know 40 years ago, I'd have been OK with knocking up a girl. These days they make you take tests and the next thing you know you're giving up your football scholarship (which I never had) to work in a box factory to pay child support.

And I didn't do the research. It's not mine. I just cite it because it's a little more significant than what you or I or anyone else writes on this board. I actually didn't know that black girls get more abortions. I always thought they'd get less. Who knew?

As for the last time being in the ghetto, as Jenny (Lopez) would say, I'm Rudey from the block. ;)

-Rudey

Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other. I'm talking directly about the comment that Bill Bennett made (wasn't that what you were talking about?), & am saying that extermination of any group of people would cause crime to go down.

Levitt said that the drop in crime is due to legalized abortion. Why did Bennett have a need to say "black babies"?

I couldn't tell you. I think it's stupid. At the very least he should care more about how the public perceives him. But I just don't see bad intentions in this guy given that he said this was all morally reprehensible in the same conversation.

-Rudey

I dunno, but from what I've read over the years and seen for myself over the years is that young teenage sistah's haven't a clue about contraception... And I don't know many teenage sistah's that are into that "alternative perserving my virginity" crap--calling BJ's and Anal Sex as virginity preservationist theory... Just teenage sistah's ain't into that freaky deeky stuff... But they are into going all the way with the groove on... They aren't saying NO they are too busy saying "HAYLE YEAH"!!!

If not, you would not see the high rates of HIV infections in African American women between the ages of 16-34 years old... From what I've read in published journals, it is through vaginal sex and some of from unclean needles of IV drug use--but most cases arise from unprotected vaginal sex...

And who is having sex with African American women... Well there aren't a huge number of African American lesbians at young ages--or let's just say they don't come OUT until later in life... So, young teenage sistahs are having sex with men most of whom are of African descent that are 5 years+ older than them... So, you've got a 12 year old who is say "experimenting" with the "touchy feelly" stuff... That means the guy that's pressuring her to "go all the way" is ~17 or 18 years old... This kind of thing has been going one for YEARS!!! Hayle a girl in my JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL (EARLY 1980's) got pregnant... Forget the number of times she might have chosen abortion...

And what I've heard, but I don't know the accuracy of the statements is that many sistahs just use abortion as their contraception... Whether it's the ease of get the procedure done, the price of contraception--'cuz they DAYUM SHO ain't selling the patch in no ghetto pharmacy--you gotta go to the white neighborhoods to get those kinna technologies--and how do you do that without your Mom's finding out??? Or it could be being misguided by "love" and duped into having a child by an a$$wipe, or just not knowing anything about anything--just going for it--like it's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission... There are just whole levels and complexes of problems that need more study to answer that question alone...

If the powers that be were to end abortion on demand as we know it, I don't think a whole lot of young teen sistahs would stick hangers up there stuff because they didn't back in the day before abortion was legal... But that would remain to be seen...

But straightout advocating abortion for African American women... That just wants to make me go out to get pregnant to piss Bill Bennett off... Like Assata Shakur said, I'd be having my baby for the cause and the revolution...