I don't know thats its getting worse actually.

And this is seperate from my normal antipathy towards adults trying to manage other adults' lives . . .

I think what happens is that we are looking for a reason why this behavior doesn't change.

When we look for a reason we start positing answers that may not be correct.

Often times things in real life are counter-intuitive.

The average person believes that if you educate people that drinking is basically bad, thats its illegal if you are underage, and that it can kill you . . . people should stop drinking.

So the statistic should bear that out right?

But we don't find that to be the case.

In fact, that expecation doesn't even match the models.

We know that in oppressive cultures the behaviors that are being suppresed become more atractive in direct proportion to their taboo.

At least in the cases of vices that bring pleasure.

I am digressing a bit . .. but education has worked, less people drive intoxicated and the percentages of people dying of alcohol poisoning aren't any greater than before.


As far as "drink until you puke," that has always been there, I am not sure its any greater now than before.

I think we are much more likely to take our friends to the hospital or panic now than ever before.

But you guys have to remember, out of all the people that drink, out the many times they do drink, very few die. Like count them on one hand.

There are very few over the coutner drugs that have that safety margin.

7700 people a year die from non-steroidal-anti-inflammatories . . . advil, tylenol etc.

I'm not so sure it's getting worse, but it seems that way - I think this is due to the major publicity attached to these events these days - we didn't hear much about it when I was in college.

I disagree that education is working except for the DUI angle - if the percentages of people dying aren't greater, they certaintly aren't decreasing, so I don't think it's "working" to solve the problem. Best case, it's "status quo".

The drink till you puke - this is different - sure we got drunk and puked in college - usually just one time. That was enough to teach you not to do it again. But two callers on that radio show, both college students, stated that is the goal these days - not just a one-time deal. It seems a perverted version of "boat races" from when I was in college.

Taking friends to the hospital - we did that in college, but that doesn't seem to happen as much today, especially in Colorado; here's why: if an underage person or a college student is admitted for alcohol poisoning, the police and campus officials are automatically notified. There is a push in Colorado for an "amnesty program" to ensure people that get in this much trouble with alcohol can still be taken to the hospital, but, not having notifications made to police/administrators, unless there was a traffic accident/assault/other criminal act involved. I completely agree with this idea - it could only help save more lives.

Tell someone NO, and they then do just the opposite.

Please, dont tell Me this is something new with Teens!!!:rolleyes:

Date Rape Drug in Hospitalized Women, Police Say -- UPDATE 10/6/05

The police chief reported that GHB, a date rape drug, was found in two of the women hospitalized. In one case, the drug was at a potentially fatal level.

The university has increased the amount of the reward offered in this case.

See the media story at:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...95/detail.html

IF it turns out that the drug was administered at either of the fraternity parties, this does not bode well for Colorado fraternities. Even if the "who" and "where" are never determined, there will still be a big cloud hanging over fraternities there, most likely.

The C.U. situation just gets worse and worse.

I just saw the update on the local news. They're still waiting for results for the other women. They showed a sorority and fraternity house, but I don't know if the houses they showed had anything to do with the results they have so far.

I hope they find the assholes who did this.

There is always a possibility that the girls took the stuff themselves. I don't know how it is in the midwest, but in the NE thats not an uncommon drug. People ended up in the hospital frequently.

What would be sad is if the girls did the drugs themselves but were afraid to say it because they would be admitting to doing a schedule I drug. A felony.

In that case the fraternity would get a really bad rap. Thats also something that has happened before.

The two houses which showed on both channels 4 and 9 were the two fraternity houses. One of the reports (I think Channel 9) also showed the sorority houses and apartment complex where one of the women lived. The story was the lead on Channels 4 (CBS) and 7 (ABC) and was the second story on Channel 9 (NBC) on the early newscasts.

While it is possible the women took the drugs themselves, the likelyhood begs to differ. Why would one woman tell the cops she only remembered having one drink -- which is part of what set off the speculation in the first place? As was pointed out, it's a felony.

Given the deaths in Colorado last year, the University/IFC controversy and the other problems in Boulder, this is a huge story. It would be nice if this turns out well for the fraternities involved -- but I don't think that will happen. There's too much smoke here to not expect any fire.

Well if I was a girl and I did a readily available drug that is associated with date rape and stood the chance of being arrested, I would say I remember taking one drink and nothing else - someone must have dropped something in my drink.

America truly believes in innocent before guilty except in rape cases.

-Rudey

Just to keep it clear. There have been no reported charges of rape (at least as of last evening) in this case.

Both you and James have reasonable points regarding the drugs, and I hope you're right, but I'm not counting on it.

I'm not saying I know that she took it. I just want to say I don't know what happened. That's all.

So using the word rape even in the connotation of a date rape drug, is pretty loaded.

-Rudey

Amen. Then it's JoeMcCarthy time.

"Doing" a drug isn't a felony.

While I feel your anger, I wanted to note that it is not a man's place to tell his girlfriend where she can and cannot go.

On another note, I guess it's beyond my comprehension that somebody would take GHB recreationally, especially so much of it. People are really that freaking stupid?

It is definitely used as a recreational drug and is considered a rave drug along with ketamine (special K) and rohypnol (roofies). When I was working adolescent psych 5 years ago, these were all huge and kids showed us that there were internet sites recommending how to use them (don't be alone, have a buddy to watch you and monitor your vitals, etc) to gain an "out of body" experience. They can be very scary drugs. According to the whitehousedrugpolicy.gov web site:

Prevalence Estimates

GHB is often ingested with alcohol by young adults and teens at nightclubs and parties. It is used as a pleasure enhancer that depresses the central nervous system and induces intoxication. It also can be used as a sedative to reduce the effects of stimulants (cocaine, methamphetamine, ephedrine) or hallucinogens (LSD, mescaline) and to prevent physical withdrawal symptoms.

Since 2000, GHB has been included in the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future Survey questionnaire. Survey results indicate that annual GHB use by secondary school students in 2000 ranged from 1.1% among 10th graders to 1.2% among 8th graders and 1.9% among 12th graders. In 2001, estimates of annual GHB use ranged from 1.0% among 10th graders to 1.1% among 8th graders and 1.6% among 12th graders.

Regional Observations

According to CEWG, as of 2001, 15 CEWG areas reported increases in GHB indicators. They were Boston, Chicago, Dallas/Houston, Denver, Los Angeles, Miami, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Newark, New York, Philadelphia, Phoenix, St. Louis, San Diego, San Francisco, and Seattle. Atlanta, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C., reported stable GHB indicators. Only two CEWG sites, Detroit and New Orleans, reported declines in GHB indicators. Most CEWG areas report that GHB is frequently used in combination with alcohol, causing users to overdose.

In 2000, according to the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC), GHB availability was stable or increasing in nearly every DEA Field Division and High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area. Many areas reported that the increased availability of GHB occurred in concert with a rise in rave activity. Law enforcement also reported increases in the number of cases involving GHB analogs.

According to Pulse Check: Trends in Drug Abuse, GHB users and sellers tend to be between the ages of 18 and 30. Most users are middle-class white males. GHB is typically packaged in plastic bottles (mostly water or sports drink bottles) and distributed by the capful for $5–$20 per dose. Additional packaging includes eyedropper bottles, glass vials, and mouthwash bottles.