What I was trying to say is that I agree that you may be making less that what the average teacher in your area makes and only slightly more than a brand new teacher but your potential to make more goes up a lot higher and faster.
Teachers in your district can go up to 75K, five years from now maybe it will go up to 80 or 85K, and they've probably been working 15 to 30 years.
The national average TODAY for a fifth year associate in a small law firm is 80K. Even if your area is somewhat salary depressed, you'll be making about as much as the most senior teacher in your district within five years. As an eigth year associate at a small firm you'll be making 100K. And you'll only be about 33!

Interesting info... just curious, where did you get those numbers from?

Just because you are talking about "your" particular school district doesn't mean that your school district is unlike many other school districts throughout the country. In reading your posts, the underlying theme appears to be "Teachers in general shouldn't be making this amount of money". Don't act too surprised when people are going to point out that you are missing a lot of facts. When you start a negative thread like this, don't be shocked to be hit with a huge dose of attitude. And also, I don't think many of your posts are what you can call "rational". You aren't really living in reality with what you've posted..........And this isn't only you. Many people in our society have this attitude and ignorance. I hope you can use this thread to educate yourself, as well as everyone who may have this same misunderstanding about teaching and the helping professions, to better educate themselves before speaking. Lastly, you have pointed out on an internet message board that you will be a lawyer and not be making the same amount of $$$$, so I think it very well ties into the discussion and is relevant, "not two different things".

I got it from NALP (The National Association for Law Placement). If you are looking for salary info for your job search and/or employer hiring info they are really great. It's www.nalp.org

That's not true. Being a lawyer or doctor is the lazy way to becoming well off. The salary you make after your education helps you pay off your loans quite easily. However, if you want to get stinking rich younger then there is a higher opportunity cost for you to give up making money to attend school. Not many people are in that position though.

And it's not fair to say people who work long hours don't have personal lives.

-Rudey

Here's some experience.

Both of my Brothers-in-Law are attorneys from reasonably large, prestegious firms. The are handsomely compenstated and often put in long hours -- most of which are billable. Their compensation has grown dramatically. Back in the mid 70's, one of them was making well into six figures yearly.

Mrs. DeltAlum was a teacher for several years when we were first married -- during the same time frame. She was up at 6:00 in order to be at school by 7:00. If she wasn't directing a play, she was generally home by 5:00 or so -- but then graded papers until 10. She taught four different classes -- Freshman English, Junior English, Speech and Theatre and Remedial Freshman English. That made for four separate preparations per night. She was paid $6,700 per year.

She spent her summers taking classes toward maintaining certifications and advance degrees -- which, of course, we paid for out of our own pocket.

For six weeks or so of five night a week, two to three hour long play rehearsals, she received an additional $400.

Her Principal and Superintendent were both former coachs -- and one was a former school bus driver.

She had a knife pulled on her in class. This was in a suburban school in 1970 or so.

Later, she taught in a Catholic high school for emotionally challanged adolescent teenage girls. Most had children and many had police records.

If she were still teaching, I would hope she would be making at least $75K -- but she might not here in Colorado.

In my opinion, you can't pay teachers enough. We chose the place we live in Colorado because the school system there is/was considered the best in the state and supposedly one of the best in the country (however you figure that out and define it). Interestingly, the teachers there aren't among the highest paid in the state. They work there because of the resources and the type of students they get. We vote "yes" on every mill levy and increase.

Especially give the problems in American education, who can be more important than the people in whom we trust the education of our future generations?

I have 3 close friends who teach kindergarten. I even had the privilage to actually go to one of their classrooms to be a 'helper' for a day... and I can honestly say I couldn't do what she does everyday. In her district she has 2 seperate classes - one in the morning, and one in the afternoon. That makes about 60 pages to grade for just one assignment, and they go through several a day. And it's honestly more than 2+2 stuff. They also have to fill out progress reports, report cards, and on top of lesson planning and everything else they have to do.

Could you go into a law office and do what lawyers do every day?

Could you lay bricks or do some gardening like those guys do every day?

Also, what you can do and are qualified to do are different. Many people can become teachers or gardeners, but not everyone can be a lawyer or a rocket scientist (not that the two are the same and no offense to lawyers, but I dislike lawyers just because they make things difficult).

-Rudey

That's awesome! My kids' gym teacher doesn't do any of that. No Red Cross, no paper assignments. They do 20 minutes of calisthenics, 10 minutes of running (either laps in the gym or around the school, depending on weather) and then 15 minutes of the sport of the month (football, soccer, volleyball, etc.) Hopefully they get more of the kinds of things you're talking about in middle school.

it's not so much of something I couldn't physically do.. just something I couldn't do. Anyone can go to school, and be a lawyer or teacher or bricklayer or gardener, but dealing with crazy parents, crazy kids (sometimes :p) and having to do a ton of work for not very much pay... I couldn't do it. As much as I love kids and as much as I would love to help them, I couldn't deal with all that and still be underappreciated by many folks.

The thing is that not everyone can get into a decent law school.

The barrier of entry is higher.

And plus, while you can't handle being a teacher, there are many, many people that can. I can't do it either. I'm good with kids but after a while it wears down on me and I will yell and I'd probably be on the news for calling a kid stupid or having other kids beat him up so he learns better. But I doubt many teachers can enjoy my job either.

-Rudey

These kind of statements have a lot to do with why it's so hard to find good teachers, particularly in the South. Smart people think that "many" people can be teachers, but that they should better use their intelligence by becoming doctors, lawyers, etc. If we start paying teachers what they are worth (and it looks like PA is doing a great job), more intelligent and qualified teachers will enter the job market. I know many girls who enjoy working with children and would otherwise want to be teachers, but a lifetime of low pay and hard work isn't as appealing as other careers. I understand your logic, but don't we want some of our best and brightest teaching our children?

Edited to add: I read in this month's NEA magazine that many Education students are not passing their teacher entrance exams. This is evidence that maybe those entering the teaching field are not at the level, intelligence-wise, that they should be. Higher pay for qualified teachers will lure smart kids to education.

For those of you that come from areas where teachers don't get paid much... are the teachers unionized?

I don't think all states in PA pay nearly as much as my school does, but in my county the pay is good- the teachers have a VERY strong union and a lot of political power.

Good points CC. Maybe if they were paid more, it would attract people who would be more-qualified, and the "bar" (that Rudey speaks of) could be raised.

If you're clerking for a judge and make less than $39k a year, something is wrong. Five years ago when I was fresh out of law school, I made about $46,500 as a brand new judicial clerk.