Thats an unfair response Delta alum. I am surprised that you would be flippant that way.

If a person goes into parenting without a developed perspective of the effects of stress and anxiety on a child then its an issue that probably will never be addressed or understood . . . or it will be too late and the child will grow up needing medication.

To spell it out a little cleaner. We know that sleep is crucial for kids and adults, so many parents develop a system that encourage enough sleep. Bed times, no sugar or soda before bed etc.

Over the years we have learned that diet can have major effect of mood. In fact it can be a determinant of it. So a saavy parent devises ways to keep the amount of sugar in a child's diet low, and provides nutrients that aren't readily available. The better you are at that, the more knowlege you have, the more likely you are to develop systems that give a good and consistent diet to a child.

So why not stress? Are there ways to diminish the amount of stress and anxiety a kid feels? Can you incoroporate those things into your "system?" Absolutely.

Its a major thing issue that is mostly overlooked in both kids and adullts. And yet there is a huge body og knowledge out there on how dehabiliting stress is over time.

*shrug* I guess its not something taught in parent school.

I think the responses that suggested you take away privileges, toys, etc. are fine. Talking to them at that age, well, there's only so much they understand. I believe she understands right from wrong, but trying to rationalize with a 4-year old, well, it ain't gonna work. At 4, she is asserting her independence, and also probably learing some stuff in school.

And this may just be the beginning. My almost 10 year old (she'll be 10 on Friday) has a smart mouth as well, but she gets a lot of that from me. Kids pick up on the things we do and say, and I didn't realize just how much I said until I heard it repeated from her. Usually though, all it took (and still takes) is "the look".

Now Pink Bug, you sound like you have a problem. Believe me, my child was no angel, but the screaming and throwing toys thing? Never happened in my house. Wanna talk about taking things away? Next time she throws toys at you, get the garbage can, load it up, and take them away. You can temporarily put them in the garage or something, but she needs to learn that throwing toys and screaming are not the way.

Also, when you "threaten", follow through. They'll soon enough pick up on what you say and what you really mean.

THIS is what scares me about ever becoming a parent, and I know that I also have to mature TONS before I have a kid. As you all know, I'm a smartass to no end and have no problem calling people out if they say or do stupid things. I can just imagine a mini-Munch calling me out on something after seeing me do the same thing. :(

Four year olds are in the heart of Erikson's stage 3 of psychological development:

Stage 3: Early Childhood -- Age 2 to 6

Crisis: Initiative vs. Guilt
Description: Children have newfound power at this stage as they have developed motor skills and become more and more engaged in social interaction with people around them. They now must learn to achieve a balance between eagerness for more adventure and more responsibility, and learning to control impulses and childish fantasies.
Positive outcome: If parents are encouraging, but consistent in discipline, children will learn to accept without guilt, that certain things are not allowed, but at the same time will not feel shame when using their imagination and engaging in make-believe role plays.
Negative outcome: If not, children may develop a sense of guilt and may come to believe that it is wrong to be independent.


Therefore, to some extent, it is their JOB to find out what the limits are and the way they do it is by testing. Firmness and consistency, telling the child their behavior is unacceptable (making clear that THEY are ok, but their behavior is not) will work, but they will take time.

James: There was nothing in her post to indicate that the child is under any unusual stress or anxiety. I do agree that anytime a child's behavior changes drastically, it is worth evaluating whether there is some other cause like a new school, new care giver, stress in the familial home, etc. It is also important, once the child is calm, to tell them what it is OK to do when they are mad or frustrated. It is ok to be angry or frustrated, but it is not ok to throw your toys. If you get really mad, you can punch a pillow (for example.. my personal fave was ripping up newspapers, of course, they also knew they had to pick them up afterward).

I have been thinking more about how I handled things back then (it's been a while now!) and I do know that I got creative rather than setting up power struggles. Somehow, singing the Barney clean up song got them to pick up toys. We also sometimes had a race to see if they could beat their best pick up time, and I would time them. Refusing to get up in the morning meant early bed time (because, logically, if they couldn't get up when I needed them to, they probably weren't getting enough sleep). Refusal to go to bed usually (and still does!) results in me saying "Well I'm going to bed, so you'll have to tuck yourself in" and voom, they're in bed, because they don't want to tuck themselves in! I also tend to engage in "silly parenting". "Momma, will you put my shoes on?" "I'm sorry honey, they don't fit me".

Keep those suggestions coming!!

Thanks for everything so far! There are some great ideas here and several to think about.

We are pretty good about controlling her diet and how much sugar/caffeine she has every day. Her amount of sleep is pretty consistent as well.

Major battles: getting dressed in the morning ( once we are dressed, she wants to change or does not want to get dressed)

"smart mouth disease"--tried playing the Christmas present card on her this weekend...( her daddy did) and she turned to him and said "Fine..I'll take your Christmas presents back then..." :eek:

Her school uses a "behavior chart" where the students get a sticker on their individual chart each day they don't have to have a "timeout", are following direction, sitting, etc. I've been thinking of using this at home.

This very very very seasoned mom thinks that there's been some wonderful advice in this thread. However, the line above by DeltAlum is classic and I want all you young parents to remember it!

Sorry to offend, but it wasn't meant to be flippant.

Not being genious, but reasonably bright, both Mrs. DA and I read about every book and suggestion we could find -- tried what made sense -- and discovered the very little really worked the way it was supposed to.

I think the reason is that every human being is different and isn't affected the same way by "fixes" from studies.

It just isn't that easy. That's all.

Here are some ideas for your individual troubles:

Then her think she has the power. Choose 2 outfits that she would like and you approve of and then let her make the choice. She thinks she has the control, but actually you hold the parameters to her control!

If she smarts off, fine...then really take her presents out from under the tree and put them away, as if you have all intentions to return them. Whatever "threats" you use, you HAVE to follow-through! If you don't then the only lesson she learns is that she can manipulate you because you're not following-through anyway.

This is a GREAT tool to use at home! You can set up reward systems that every time she gets "X" number of stickers, she gets a reward...whether it be the reinstatment of a previously revoked privilege or a token that she's been wanting...

Good luck to you! You've got a lot of great suggestions coming your way!