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Tom Earp 11-29-2004 07:17 PM

Emailed to Me by one of My LXA Brothers!


Read and think!


FYI - Article out of this weeks Chronicle of Higher Education
>>>>>
>>>>> Four Rules for Saving a Fraternity
>>>>> At Linfield College, one house's president brought his chapter back from
>>>>> the brink
>>>>>
>>>>> ELIZABETH F. FARRELL
>>>>> McMinnville, Ore.
>>>>>
>>>>> After taking over as president of the Theta Chi fraternity at Linfield
>>>>> College last fall, Justin Samples lost 15 pounds and the ability to sleep
>>>>> through the night. That is what the constant stress of trying to rein in
>>>>> an out-of-control fraternity will do to a 20-year-old.
>>>>> So it was a surprise that last year on Halloween, a night known for pranks
>>>>> and mayhem, he dozed off at 10 p.m.
>>>>> His slumber, however, was brief. At 2 a.m., Jubari Sykes, another Theta
>>>>> Chi member, called to tell him that the fraternity's vice president, Peter
>>>>> Munro, had just been caught stealing a digital camera and a laptop from
>>>>> the neighboring Delta Psi Delta fraternity house. Mr. Munro, who was drunk
>>>>> at the time of the incident, had brought along a pledging member to assist
>>>>> in his prank.
>>>>> Mr. Samples learned that the pledge was missing, the police were
>>>>> everywhere, and Mr. Munro was behind bars. Mr. Samples says that as he
>>>>> walked over to meet Mr. Sykes early that morning, he felt "betrayed and
>>>>> ticked off" by Mr. Munro. He realized Theta Chi had "hit rock bottom." He
>>>>> also knew what needed to be done.
>>>>> He pulled Mr. Sykes aside and said, "Pete's out, and we should go alcohol
>>>>> free." Mr. Samples recalls that Mr. Sykes "just kind of stepped back and
>>>>> said, 'What?'"
>>>>> Following a spate of alcohol-related deaths at fraternities across the
>>>>> country this fall, many fraternity leaders are in a predicament similar to
>>>>> the one Mr. Samples faced last year. Their members have reputations for
>>>>> being drunken troublemakers, and they have squandered the good will of
>>>>> administrators and local police. Many of their chapters are on the brink
>>>>> of extinction.
>>>>> Some have already folded. This month, for instance, Sigma Nu closed its
>>>>> chapter at the University of Oregon despite the recent efforts of some
>>>>> members to overcome the house's persistent problems, which included
>>>>> alcohol violations and legal battles with the university. This fall, two
>>>>> fraternities at universities in Colorado have been closed indefinitely
>>>>> following alcohol-related deaths at their houses, and many other chapters
>>>>> across the country are under pressure from police and administrators to
>>>>> shape up or shut down.
>>>>> According to experts on Greek life, most fraternities in such a
>>>>> predicament fail to make the improvements necessary to survive. "Complete
>>>>> cultural change is quite difficult," says Dan Bureau, president of the
>>>>> Association of Fraternity Advisors, a group that provides guidance on
>>>>> handling Greek-life issues to its membership of more than 1,300 college
>>>>> professionals. "For a fraternity to succeed in going from one end of the
>>>>> spectrum to another, they usually have to close down and then reopen after
>>>>> some time."
>>>>> McMinnville police had already declared Theta Chi a "public nuisance"
>>>>> before the Halloween incident and were ready to board up the fraternity's
>>>>> house, which is located off the campus. Administrators at this
>>>>> 2,500-student liberal-arts college had put the chapter on probation,
>>>>> forbidding the then-40-member fraternity from holding any social functions
>>>>> until it could prove that it had cleaned up its act.
>>>>> Saddled with that baggage, Mr. Samples defied expectations. Over the next
>>>>> four months, he and other house leaders kicked out six members, put an end
>>>>> to Theta Chi's epic beer bashes, and doubled their recruitment. In July,
>>>>> McMinnville's police chief awarded Mr. Samples --_who had stepped down as
>>>>> the fraternity's president in June --_the citizen's police medal for his
>>>>> efforts.
>>>>> Barry Tucker, director of multicultural programs at Linfield, admits that
>>>>> he thought the Theta Chi brothers were too irresponsible to save their
>>>>> fraternity. "They proved me wrong," Mr. Tucker says. "Justin was very
>>>>> persistent. He doesn't back down for anybody."
>>>>> Theta Chi's self-styled makeover is the type of swift turnaround that many
>>>>> colleges would love to inspire in their own Greek systems. At a time when
>>>>> many administrators are trying every rule and sanction imaginable to force
>>>>> troubled fraternities to improve, the story of one house's revival shows
>>>>> that sometimes the only way to save a fraternity is for the students to do
>>>>> it from within.
>>>>> #1: Be Persuasive, Not Preachy
>>>>> Banning alcohol was a tough sell to many members of Theta Chi who
>>>>> considered the fraternity their "drinking club," according to Mr. Sykes.
>>>>> Because so many of the upperclassmen were staunchly opposed to going dry,
>>>>> Mr. Samples took a low-key approach to promoting the ban. He also did some
>>>>> politicking among the younger members, telling them about his idea and
>>>>> then asking, "What do you think of it?"
>>>>> When all of Theta Chi's 40 members gathered to vote on the ban last
>>>>> November, Mr. Samples told them that every problem they had as a
>>>>> fraternity stemmed from alcohol. He urged them to vote in favor of banning
>>>>> booze in the house. Although the law in Oregon, like all states, forbids
>>>>> anyone under 21 from drinking alcoholic beverages, drinking behind closed
>>>>> doors is hard to prevent at many institutions.
>>>>> "You can't sell it as 'Hey! This is awesome!'" says Mr. Samples. "So I
>>>>> tried to go for shock value, saying, 'Just think how far the chief's jaw
>>>>> will drop when I tell him we're going dry.'"
>>>>> Theta Chi bylaws require a two-thirds majority to pass any rule, and when
>>>>> the members first voted, the measure failed. Fraternity bylaws forbid a
>>>>> second vote in the same meeting, so Mr. Samples adjourned the gathering.
>>>>> Mr. Samples says he was "livid," but he kept his cool, calmly expressing
>>>>> his disappointment. He asked members to reconsider. He commenced a new
>>>>> meeting five minutes later. This time, the measure passed by one vote.
>>>>> Despite the stress of the ordeal, the challenge of changing his brothers'
>>>>> minds intrigued him. "Something about seeing what makes people tick
>>>>> fascinates me," says Mr. Samples, a senior majoring in business. "I really
>>>>> like to rally people together and see what I can do to get the best out of
>>>>> them."
>>>>> With a trim, muscular build and well-defined jaw, Mr. Samples looks the
>>>>> part of a lifelong athlete, and says sports have given him leadership
>>>>> opportunities since his grade-school days as captain of the flag- football
>>>>> team.
>>>>> Ryan Monagle, now a junior in charge of rush recruitment, says he and
>>>>> other members were motivated by Mr. Samples's determination, and his
>>>>> willingness to do everything possible to improve Theta Chi, including
>>>>> quitting the football team at the beginning of that semester to devote
>>>>> more time to the fraternity. "It's really hard to not help out and back
>>>>> him up when you see him there on his hands and knees scrubbing floors,"
>>>>> says Mr. Monagle.
>>>>> #2: Redefine Loyalty
>>>>> As difficult as it was to persuade members to approve the alcohol ban, the
>>>>> real hurdle was enforcing it. Not surprisingly, the Theta Chi members who
>>>>> had opposed the ban were the same ones who were getting into the
>>>>> alcohol-related trouble. They refused to change their behavior.
>>>>> "Things ended up escalating in the house," says Mr. Samples. "There was a
>>>>> certain faction of brothers who said 'screw this' and were basically
>>>>> giving the finger to the police."
>>>>> Kicking out the disruptive members was not an easy decision for any
>>>>> member. Ultimately, Mr. Monagle says, they had no choice but to remove the
>>>>> disruptive members, whom he refers to as a "cancer." Still, he says he
>>>>> felt "kind of like I was stabbing them in the back."
>>>>> The principles of loyalty and brotherhood are a double-edged sword: They
>>>>> can either inspire a fraternity to improve or precipitate its downfall.
>>>>> The problem with organizations that foment such strong bonds among members
>>>>> is that they sometimes defend one another even when it contradicts the
>>>>> best interest of the group.
>>>>> "They're young kids and maybe it's the first time they've felt like a part
>>>>> of something," says Carl Swanson, the Greek adviser to Linfield's four
>>>>> fraternities and four sororities. "A lot of them want to belong and don't
>>>>> want to be the first to say something, even if they think what others in
>>>>> the group are doing is wrong."
>>>>> The tide of peer pressure, however, is reversible. In Theta Chi's case,
>>>>> Mr. Samples and members of the fraternity's executive council held
>>>>> separate votes on each problematic member, six in all. "With the first
>>>>> person we suspended, the vote was a lot closer than it should have been,"
>>>>> says Mr. Samples. "But then, with each subsequent member, it got
>>>>> cumulatively less close."
>>>>> Amid what members describe as a "civil war," they trusted Mr. Samples's
>>>>> leadership. Mr. Monagle, who is still good friends with some of the former
>>>>> members, says they were "not bad people, just good guys who made some bad
>>>>> decisions."
>>>>> One of the students they voted out was Mr. Munro, who had stolen the
>>>>> electronics equipment on Halloween night. Although he insists that he left
>>>>> voluntarily, and remains on good terms with many of his friends in Theta
>>>>> Chi, he still faults members of the fraternity for their lack of loyalty.
>>>>> "With brotherhood, the bottom line is you don't sell out your brothers, no
>>>>> matter the cost," says Mr. Munro. He calls the theft "a prank that got out
>>>>> of control." Theta Chi members, he says, "made me look like I was a
>>>>> horrible person, and made me the scapegoat for all the house's problems."
>>>>> A month after getting arrested, Mr. Munro says he withdrew from Linfield
>>>>> in an effort to stop drinking. (He says he now does so only occasionally.)
>>>>> And some members took his move as a wake-up call. Without the convenience
>>>>> of free-flowing beer in the house, they did not imbibe nearly as often.
>>>>> #3: Make Friends With the Police
>>>>> One of Linfield's top administrators says Greek students on the campus
>>>>> often think everyone is out to get them. Local police officers complain
>>>>> that students "act like they're their own lawyers," arguing about their
>>>>> legal rights instead of taking responsibility for their actions, says
>>>>> Wayne McFarlin, McMinnville's chief of police.
>>>>> Yet Mr. Samples sought to build an alliance with the authority figures
>>>>> many students considered their enemies.
>>>>> He admits that the specter of sanctions from the police and college
>>>>> "forced us to deal with problems in a very abrupt fashion, a lot faster
>>>>> than I would have liked."
>>>>> Instead of rebelling against authority, however, Mr. Samples set up weekly
>>>>> meetings with Linfield's student-life adviser, the Greek-life adviser, and
>>>>> his fraternity's faculty adviser. He asked many former Theta Chi leaders
>>>>> and alumni advisers for advice, and consulted with the executive director
>>>>> of Theta Chi's national office, David Westol, in a series of telephone
>>>>> conversations during the reorganization.
>>>>> He also met with Chief McFarlin at least once a month.
>>>>> He even followed Chief McFarlin's suggestion to erect a fence bordering
>>>>> Theta Chi's property, to keep inebriated students from wandering into the
>>>>> fraternity's yard. His openness to such ideas pleasantly surprised Chief
>>>>> McFarlin, and it played a large role in earning Mr. Samples the citizen's
>>>>> police medal.
>>>>> "His leadership was something I really wanted to capture," says Chief
>>>>> McFarlin. "He took a lot of personal risks. Nobody, not even police chiefs
>>>>> want to do something that makes people upset with them, but he understood
>>>>> that sometimes the mission takes precedence over personal feelings."
>>>>> #4: Change Your Image
>>>>> The most demoralizing effect of Theta Chi's problems was the treatment its
>>>>> members received on the campus and around town. Wearing Theta Chi letters,
>>>>> they say, was like having "Kick Me" signs on their backs. Mr. Samples
>>>>> recalls walking into a 7-Eleven in his Theta Chi shirt, which prompted the
>>>>> clerk to remark, "You guys are in a lot of trouble, huh?"
>>>>> Both the campus and local newspapers had reported all of the fraternity's
>>>>> misdeeds. So Mr. Samples started off his fraternity's image makeover by
>>>>> writing a letter to the student newspaper, The Linfield Review, in which
>>>>> he apologized for Theta Chi's behavior and explained what its members were
>>>>> doing to improve.
>>>>> Mr. Samples also helped pass a new rule that required every Theta Chi
>>>>> member to increase his community-service commitment from 4 hours to 10
>>>>> hours per semester. That paid off with some good press: Local newspapers
>>>>> published articles about Theta Chi members volunteering at local tutoring
>>>>> programs and co-sponsoring a Toys for Tots drive with the McMinnville Fire
>>>>> Department.
>>>>> Recognizing that a handful of bad apples can spoil an entire house's
>>>>> image, Mr. Samples and other members of the fraternity examined their
>>>>> recruitment practices and decided to become more selective. "We paid for
>>>>> the recruitment mistakes of other classes," says Mr. Samples, "because the
>>>>> emphasis was on getting large numbers of people instead of focusing on
>>>>> quality members."
>>>>> That approach is often a result of financial pressures --_without enough
>>>>> members, expenses, including hefty mortgages and party costs, can become
>>>>> prohibitive. Sometimes that means that house leaders do not carefully
>>>>> consider how dedicated each student will be to their organization.
>>>>> But instead of hurting its popularity, Theta Chi's new membership
>>>>> requirements, including a minimum 3.0 grade-point average for new members
>>>>> --_based on high-school grades for freshmen --_and demonstrated leadership
>>>>> skills, increased interest among prospective members, attracting the
>>>>> largest pledge class ever the following fall, with 22 members compared
>>>>> with an average of 6 for each of the previous four years.
>>>>> The image overhaul has changed perceptions of the house on the campus.
>>>>> "They used to be bad, but are getting better," says one Linfield student
>>>>> of the fraternity.
>>>>> Administrators at Linfield are impressed by Theta Chi's progress, though
>>>>> they qualify their praise by noting that the fraternity has plenty of room
>>>>> for improvement. Under Linfield's new Greek Standards Program,
>>>>> fraternities are assigned points in four categories: academic performance,
>>>>> financial responsibility, community service, and member education. Theta
>>>>> Chi, like all the college's fraternities, falls short of the minimum
>>>>> requirements, meaning it cannot hold more than two social events per
>>>>> semester. The Theta Chi house will also retain its status as a "public
>>>>> nuisance" unless no complaints are filed with the police until next
>>>>> August, according to Chief McFarlin.
>>>>> As of late November, Theta Chi had only one noise complaint for the whole
>>>>> semester.
>>>>> "They are doing a really nice job managing their property," says Chief
>>>>> McFarlin, who was so impressed by the improvement that he sent a letter to
>>>>> Linfield College's president in early November commending Theta Chi --_and
>>>>> other Linfield fraternities --_for their progress.
>>>>> Mr. Samples says he does not mind if his brothers drink --_as long as it's
>>>>> not in the house. Even though he is no longer Theta Chi's president, he
>>>>> still patrols the halls of the fraternity house at 2 or 3 a.m. on
>>>>> weekends, to make sure residents are following the rules.
>>>>> Despite his diligence, his brothers sometimes break the rules. On a recent
>>>>> Friday afternoon, for instance, a 24-pack of Busch beer and unopened
>>>>> bottle of Bacardi rum sit on top of the mini-fridge in one member's room.
>>>>> Upon hearing about it, Mr. Samples shakes his head. But he is not
>>>>> surprised.
>>>>> "It makes me mad," he says. "But going dry is an ongoing process, and we
>>>>> have to remind everyone each week that we are still an alcohol-free
>>>>> house."

DeltAlum 11-29-2004 11:11 PM

That is a most impressive story. That guy will probably be President of General Motors or something some day.

It took a lot of guts on his part, but I really believe that a lot of questionable chapters need to take this kind of action.

James 11-29-2004 11:14 PM

Naaah, he is too PC to make a good business CEO, he will probbaly be a college administrator or teacher someday and bore his students with his one moral lesson.

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
That is a most impressive story. That guy will probably be President of General Motors or something some day.

It took a lot of guts on his part, but I really believe that a lot of questionable chapters need to take this kind of action.


Munchkin03 11-29-2004 11:17 PM

Quote:


Recognizing that a handful of bad apples can spoil an entire house's
image, Mr. Samples and other members of the fraternity examined their
recruitment practices and decided to become more selective. "We paid for
the recruitment mistakes of other classes," says Mr. Samples, "because the
emphasis was on getting large numbers of people instead of focusing on
quality members." That approach is often a result of financial pressures --without enough members, expenses, including hefty mortgages and party costs, can become prohibitive. Sometimes that means that house leaders do not carefully
consider how dedicated each student will be to their organization.

It's great that Theta Chi HQ was supportive of their being more selective, and willing to take fewer members, in order to improve the chapter. Not all HQs are that supportive--at least, not in sororities.

On another note--it bothers me when people say that we, as Greeks, are punished for things that independents do all the time. We talk a great game about having "higher standards" than independents, with everything from GPA to campus involvement, but when we're actually held to those higher standards, the bellyaching begins.

DeltAlum 11-30-2004 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
When it comes to drinking does Greek Life, as a sample, reflect the tendencies of mainstream college students...

...Do greeks drink so much more than mainstream college students that they constitute a social fringe?

...Because if Greeks are representive samples of college students, then there is no genuine problem . . . just a series of PC labels.

James does rock.

But I think there are a couple of flaws in the argument.

First, I would argue that Greeks aren't considered to "reflect" the tendencies of mainstream college students, but rather be the leaders and inventers of those tendencies.

Second, if you believe the various studies, no matter what the methodology, they seem to agree that Greeks drink more as a group than other students.

Third, Greeks allegedly hold themselves (ourselves) to higher standards than the "pack." In other words, I argue in the first comment, we don't "reflect" tendencies, we "project" them on other students.

(With thanks to the late Lee Levenger, former FCC Commissioner's "Reflective/Projective" Theory -- shortly before he called television a "vast wasteland." Simply put, people see us do something, think it's the "cool" thing and project themselves into that coolness by copying the behavior.)

Finally, I think it's important to restate what others have said. Nobody I see here is suggesting alcohol abstinance -- just get it out of the chapter houses and put less public emphasis on it as a reason for being.

Arguing that something is PC has become a handy tool. What we have to realize is that sometimes PC is also reality.

33girl 11-30-2004 11:48 AM

"Higher standards" is one of those garbage phrases like "values based" that has no real meaning. Ask 25 people what it means, you'll get 25 answers. It's pointless.

There are just as many people out there who are student leaders in some way - be it the student senate prez, the team captain or just the person who knows everyone on campus - who are non-Greek as Greek. They're not necessarily anti-Greek, just Greek life isn't for everyone and it wasn't for them.

If you're at the sort of school where you have no social life if you're not Greek, like DePauw, maybe the "creating tendencies" argument holds water, but on many campuses it's no more reality than the Tooth Fairy.

DeltAlum 11-30-2004 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcellpe
Rome is burning! We must, as a greek community, work hard to eliminate some of the reckless behaviors that occur in our houses and truly change. Yes, we are held to a higher standard; one we set for ourselves. Society is holding us to this standard, and will simply eliminate us if we do not deliver.
I was thinking about a comment this afternoon, but this pretty well says it.

We can yell and scream about how unfair liquor laws are, and we can say (as I understand some posts above) that everything we've said about higher standards and our founders principles are apparantely a lot of BS. And I guess we shouldn't look for special people to pledge because we only want to compare ourselves to what "everybody" does.

Hey, what the hell, it's not really a problem, it's all the nasty old media's fault for reporting what, no matter what we think, are legimate news stories. They pick on us just because we've developed the reputation of being the hard partiers on campus.

Or, we can bury our heads in the sand and blame Political Correctness. But this problem existed before "PC" was invented.

This is nothing new -- but the realities of Risk Management, liability and lawsuits have forced it into the open.

Unfortunately, when you are an advisor or division/national officer, or even an administrator at a college, all of those things really don't excuse the fact that our members are breaking the law and some are even dying.

Here's your fiddle, Mr. Nero. Play on.

33girl 11-30-2004 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcellpe
33girl, you torched me above for trying to "lump all your fellow Greeks into one mass", but, after reviewing your post, and some of the other 8000+ comments you've made, I sincerely hope your views don't really reflect the greater greek commmunity either. Your apparent reasons for joining a GLO are not even remotely similar to mine. And don't even begin to lecture me on who is a part of the problem!
I'd love to know what my "apparent reasons" are, according to you. And if you're going to say that everyone on this board who joined a Greek org for reasons you don't deem worthy is a "part of the problem", well, umm, what do you say kids? Should we solve the problem by terminating ourselves alphabetically?

If you would have read more of my comments you would have seen that I joined a Greek org to make friends and widen my social circle beyond that of my boyfriend's. As far as philanthropy was concerned, I was already doing plenty of community/campus service with Alpha Phi Omega. If all I wanted to do was party, which seems to be what you're implying, I certainly wouldn't have joined the group that was known as the campus teetotalers.

I don't have an "agenda" although I'm amused because I got accused of that by another member of a nationally dry fraternity. I guess agenda = saying things you don't like to hear. James' post about the Greek system being like an abuse victim that acts like/thinks he/she deserves the abuse said it all.

Like I said, condescending to people - especially the 18-22 set - gets you nowhere. But if it works for you and you like for your fraternity to be associated with that attitude, hey, keep it up.

33girl 12-01-2004 11:19 AM

clarification
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mcellpe
I'll back off for now, but when someone tells me that my fraternity's higher standards are a "garbage phrase" with "no real meaning", those are fighting words to me, and to most of the greeks on this board. Words like that make it sound like we are all members of mindless social clubs. I am not a member of a social club.
I don't mean the standards themselves that you hold are garbage - I mean the phrase itself has been so overused and abused that, as I said, every person you asked would give you a different answer as to what it means. (Some other words that are getting there are "family friendly" and "patriotism.") My point is - say what you mean. If you mean you ask men to have a higher GPA than the rest of the campus, say so. If you mean you require them to do community service when the majority of students do not, say so. Ambiguity does us no good - you can deny someone whose hair falls the wrong way a bid and say "well, they didn't live up to our higher standards."

Administrators and prospective members don't want to hear that we have "higher standards." They want to hear what those standards ARE. That's all I meant, sorry that you misinterpreted it.

I don't say you're "condescending" because you're talking about it - but to say "let's squeeze education in between keggers" - come on. If your campus experience was that all other chapters did was drink, I feel bad for you, but that certainly wasn't mine. To imply everyone who isn't dry is drinking 24/7 - sorry, that is condescension no matter how you look at it. I'll back off too, but just think about how you sound when you say things like that.

James 12-02-2004 11:15 PM

33girl is right.

You (generally) should demonstrate your critical thinking abilities by agreeing with her . . at least in principle.

When people use unqualified phrases such as "family values" or "higher standards" etc it conjures different meanings among an audience.

Its a vague statement and a corruption of the use of the English Language when used in debate settings because it leads to communication ambiguities.

At best its often the fall-back of someone being lazy because they know their audience will fill in the meaning for them, each according to his or her tendencies.

At worst its a manipulative technique in a dialogue to create a position thats difficult to assail but is based on a logical fatuity.

Please clarify how the higher standards of any GLO preclude drinking as an acceptable activity?

DeltAlum 12-03-2004 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
Please clarify how the higher standards of any GLO preclude drinking as an acceptable activity?
Where did anyone say that?

Seems to me that the discussion is about abuse of alcohol -- to the point of physical danger -- and drinking in chapter houses.

Munchkin03 12-03-2004 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcellpe
A last word about higher standards- I would advise that we all give this phrase some careful thought, and translate is into meaningful, measurable goals for our organizations. I have said this before, and will repeat it again: Social Fraternities don’t exist by their own right, society allows them to exist, because they are perceived to add value. We must all continually demonstrate that we add value to the college campuses where we reside. Because if people stop seeing where we add value, we will no longer be tolerated. I guarantee you that there are college administrators out there pondering this very issue as I write this.
Whenever I think about Greeks and "higher standards," I immediately think about all the things we tell potential new members, parents, the university and the outside community about us. We're very quick to mention how the Greek GPA is higher than the All-Women or All-Men GPA, we love to talk about how most of the Fortune 500 CEOs went Greek in college, how rates of giving of time and money to charitable causes are higher among Greeks, and so forth and so on. WE set ourselves apart from the larger university community by touting the benefits of GLO membership.

But, when something bad happens, we are the same ones who whine and complain that "non-Greeks don't get the same scrutiny." When someone holds us to the history of honor and excellence that our founders and those who have come before us have set through exemplary behavior, some of us don't want to be held to that standard.

33girl 12-03-2004 01:13 PM

tangent
 
Do you know what really chaps my hide about this whole deal?

18-21 year olds fought for the right to vote, won, and ever since, have seemed to be incapable of mobilizing to change any of the restrictions put on their age group. (I don't mean just drinking, I mean not being able to rent a car and crap like that as well)

I mean, find a lame-duck Congressman (or better, one who has balls enough to stand up to MADD) who'll propose repeal of the Federal Hwy Funding Act, and send the message to your congressman that if he opposes it, all the 18-21 year olds in his district will vote his sorry butt out.

I know that's oversimplifying a lot, but especially now, there are so many people that age, I just feel like something could be done.

kleptobyte 04-09-2006 03:36 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree
 
Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
No, it's not, but it seems that a lot of the fraternities that have gone "dry" still are ending up in the headlines an awful lot for alcohol issues.
All fraternities should be dry. What does alcohol have to with Hellenism? Not the "Hellenism" frats claim to forward but true Hellenism, you know from Greece. You know, the ideals that your little clubs were supposed to forward and represent? The answer is, nothing.

If you want to have a club based on copius alcohol consumption, make one that doesn't defame the image of ETHNIC GREEKS!!!!!

What if some Chinese guys made the WASP club and centered it around the debasement of women. How would you all feel about that?

It's time your cute little college clubs stopped defaming Greek culture and language. I'm all for dry frats and sororities. maybe reputable people would join instead of clueless, cultureless suburban kids who have to borrow our language and culture as monnikers for their debauchery.

TSteven 04-09-2006 07:04 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree
 
Quote:

Originally posted by kleptobyte
All fraternities should be dry. What does alcohol have to with Hellenism? Not the "Hellenism" frats claim to forward but true Hellenism, you know from Greece. You know, the ideals that your little clubs were supposed to forward and represent? The answer is, nothing.

If you want to have a club based on copius alcohol consumption, make one that doesn't defame the image of ETHNIC GREEKS!!!!!

What if some Chinese guys made the WASP club and centered it around the debasement of women. How would you all feel about that?

It's time your cute little college clubs stopped defaming Greek culture and language. I'm all for dry frats and sororities. maybe reputable people would join instead of clueless, cultureless suburban kids who have to borrow our language and culture as monnikers for their debauchery.

FYI: By and large, Greek Lettered Organizations (a.k.a. "cute little college clubs") are not associated with Hellenic culture.

fraternity and sorority
answers.com

"Fraternities [and Sororities] are usually named by two or three Greek letters and are also known as Greek-letter societies; women's Greek-letter societies are commonly called sororities. The oldest Greek-letter society is Phi Beta Kappa, founded (1776) at the College of William and Mary, Williamsburg, Va. It soon became a scholarship honor society. After 1830 the literary societies that existed in many colleges were slowly supplanted by fraternities modeled on the three established (1825–27) at Union College. After 1870 many professional and honorary fraternities were established to give recognition to scholarship in various fields."


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