A "reform movement" to prevent hanging 16 yr olds w/ sharp tongues is budding? cute - I'd be loathe to make this an Islamic thing, though, ace, and quick to make it an Iranian Government thing. Is the Iranian Government at a similar point to the American Government during the Salem With Trials? Oh - that's not a valid comparison? Weird, who would have thought.

Your explanation of your thesis here is a strawman, btw, and carries no weight. The religious development cannot be compared w/ relative 'age' due to the different social and societal pressures of the actual ages in which the growth occured, even if this were a religious issue (which it, thankfully, really is not). In reality, the fight against fundamentalism strawmans the topic at hand.

As our Iranian clients have instructed me, they are Persian, not Arab.

rudey, i'd encourage you to check out protest warrior (www.protestwarrior.com) i think you'd like it.

That site is great.

The Iranians are very clear about being the descendants of the ancient Persians. They see themselves as a separate people. As do the Iraqis, for that matter.

The Iranians who came over here after the Shah was deposed were in many cases the elite, urban, well-educated supporters of the Shah. They have become very much a part of Western society while remaining Muslim. I know a few and have been neighbors with a few. They are successful, industrious, and very engaging.
This is why the mullahs are so pathetic in my opinion, and also why Iran is brimming with young people who want the mullahs and the hard liners gone. And why it would be such a shame to be goaded into attacking them because of what those old buzzards say.

I just cannot get past the idea that any civilization would want to surrender 50% of its brain power because they demand women be subservient. And to kill one for being "smart tongued"? :mad:

Yeah I am trying to go to liberty rising but its a bit of a hike. you join a chapter ktsnake?

Wouldn't this situation warranted involvement of Amnesty International? But I guess since she's already dead it's too late.

What a useless organization.

-Rudey

Nah, I prefer to work from within the establishment ;)

I also don't like the weirdos that these types of groups seem to attract on either side of the aisle. There just isn't room in these groups for someone like me who might be called a "social liberal":eek: I'm for things like gambling, gay marriage, drug legalization, etc. That just doesn't jive with a lot of folks in these groups and I don't like having to explain myself and my views to them.

There is a difference in time frames. Biblical violence in Judaism occurred long, long ago, and on a scale that is much smaller than what was done in the name of other religions. It was never systemic, and it really was just isolated to individuals who happened to be Jewish.

The systemic violence done in the name of Christianity was also done a long time ago.

The systemic violence done in the name of Islam reflects the relative immaturity of the religion. Islam has yet to go through some type of enlightenment that reconciles its religious fundamentalism with secular arts and sciences. On one level, Islam is no different than other religions at other points in their history.

What makes the current struggle within Islam different is that it is occurring after the advent of mass media and WMD. These are realities that can not be ignored. Jihadist Islam has to face tougher scrutiny and opposition because the stakes are so much differnet, and so much higher than ever before.

While I am certainly a Christian, I wanted to thank you for pointing this out. What people do in the name of a religion should not be taken as what is embodied by that religion.

That reminds me of a dialogue that Ghandi once had. He was asked, "what's the best thing about Christianity?" Ghandi answered, "Jesus." He was then asked, "what's the worst thing about Christianity?" He answered, "Christians."