I agree that the real issue is "Why is binge drinking so cool?". I am from the eighties generation (In college from '83-'87). Beer was free flowing from the kegs of the fraternity houses and we were allowed to be in bars when we were 18 but not allowed to buy until we were 21. The 21 year olds had no problem buying for those who wanted it. I never heard of "power hour" or of doing 21 shots on your 21st birthday. Occasionally someone would get way too drunk but binge drinking wasn't the norm. 18-20 year olds were driving to Ohio to buy, especially the 3.2 beer, which was probably more dangerous. Drugs were extremely rare. I knew of a couple people who smoked marijuana.

With beer being the main drink of choice, most people got full before they got that drunk. Dancing and flirting were more fun than getting so drunk that you couldn't do either!

Canada's drunk driving laws seem much more strict than ours. I've known people who were caught driving under the influence in Canada and their cars were impounded! How do you explain that to Mom and Dad?

I don't drink at all anymore, because of how it affects my Crohn's Disease. Weeks of illness make having a drink (even an occasional one) not worth it. But, even before the Crohn's, I couldn't tell you the last time I'd been drunk. It was definitely before I had kids. Hmmm, probably 1991!

Dee

Re: power drinking
 

For the most part, this was true at UK in the mid to late 70's as well. Except for perhaps the jitterbugging. :D

Students did not join GLOs to drink or get drunk. Not to say it didn't happen. In fact, I'm still wondering if I didn't brain my damage. :cool:

But frankly, at the time, drinking was part of the campus wide social environment and as such, wasn't a big deal. (FYI: UK's alcohol policy came about not because of Greeks "misuse" of alcohol, but because it was a campus wide issue.)

And like justamom, I too don't recall any alcohol related issues at the time. But as justamom also pointed out, it may not have been considered "news". :eek:


Edited to note: UK = The University of Kentucky.

TSteven, I could not agree with you more along with justamom.

Erik and I were somewhat close contempories as it were and knew him in "THE OLD" days!:cool:

I lived and went to a college that had 21 as a drinking age, Mo. in the 60's.

Ks. did have the 18 age of drinking age so all of the Mo. people went to Ks,., not to get drunk but socialize with contempories from differnet or even the same school.

As Erik said, there was no drinking in the Houses, all of the parties were taken off campus, not by National Rules, but by common sense and Chapter Rules.:cool:

Upon going to school in Ks. I was of legal age anywhere to imbibe and did. But, if a Brother/Sister of any Greek Organization had problems, it was a code that we all take care of each other!

Todays Code seems to be diferrent, by Risk Management Insurance Cost Say!

Have times and Mores' have changed in 40 years, yes they have, but the question is, is it for the better?

Do We be our Brother/Sisters Keepers?:confused: Saddly, it does not seem so!:(

Russ, it was a very good question and talking with a Man who is in a position to do something about it and getting his input was a stroke of Genius! Points out some very good points!:)

I have always been of the contention, that if you can go to the Military and get killed for Your Country, or Vote for whoever dictates the policies for Your Country, then why cannot you have alchohol if you so desire!

I want to add that at the time, drinking was allowed in the chapter houses and the dorms. It just wasn't something that was done to an extreme that seems to be the issue now. And for what it's worth, often the "wild" parties actually happened in the dorms. :eek:

Back in my younger days as an undergrad (a little over 20 years ago) the drinking age in my home state (Florida) was 19; when I went to college at Oklahoma is when I had my first encounter with weird drinking laws. Prior to September 1983, those 18 and over could purchase 3.2 beer; you had to be 21 and older for 'strong beer' (over 3.2%) or hard liquor. And there was a very hard-fought referendum the following year over serving liquor by the drink in Oklahoma. (If you wanted a mixed drink, you had to join a private club and bring your own bottle at the liquor store; the club provided the 'setups' (I think Utah still uses this setup today.))

Here's the story on why Oklahoma was the last 'dry' state to go 'wet': http://www.normantranscript.com/stor...y_id=9290&c=12

I'm not sure where in Europe your friend worked, but I don't agree with you on this. Because students aren't in session over the summer, that may have affected your friend's observations.

I lived in England for a long while and I routinely saw drunken groups of young people and university students doing dumb stuff. (Driving through the city centre at 2am was a disgusting sight sometimes.) As a matter of fact, my university's athletic union has an annual "sports initiation night" for everyone on a sports team. That event is a HUGE MEGA GIGANTIC risk management nightmare. Here I was this American student affairs professional and I was totally shocked and horrified by what the university/student's union allowed on campus property.

I lived a block away from one of the town's favourite streets for pub crawling and I cannot agree that European people are better at handling alcohol because they were taught better at an earlier age. :( If anything, it was the 18 - 21 year olds who caused the most disruption and damage. They seemed to have less maturity and good-judgement than the "older" crowd.


.....Kelly :)

She au pairing for a family and travelled to France and Italy with them. She was allowed to hang out with local youth in the evenings after she was let off from duties.

Would "The Forbidden Fruit" idea come to mind!

NO, you cant, so anybody or most will just to prove that it can be done!

What is appaling to many Alums of my Chapter is going to the House and finding empty beer cans in the yard and in the bushes ourside. This does not count the many emptys or even partial emptys strewn all around the house:(
Trash cans are full and the dumpster is clear across the parking lot, wow, 50 feet away.:rolleyes:

The house was on the main drag of Pittsburg and made a bad representation of the Chapter.:o

I'm kind of torn on this issue.

On the one hand, the statistics do show a drop in alcohol-related traffic accidents in the 18-21 age group.

On the other hand, if you can be told to fight and die for your country, you should be able to drink a beer in it.

A 21yo drinking age is also very difficult to enforce, especially in a college environment. When I was in college, I had plenty of 21+ friends who were willing to buy for me or lend me their ID. I also went to many a fraternity party where you were carded at the door but the pledge tending bar would cheerfully ignore the big black X on your hand.

Maybe a graduated drinking age is the answer. You could bring back the 18yo drinking age for 3.2 beer. Or, I heard a proposal in the UK (where the drinking age is 18) that would allow 16 and 17yos to have a beer or a glass of wine (no hard liquor) at a pub as long as it was with a meal. It would be tough to enforce, though... you could always eat your dinner reallllly slowly... ;)

On a related note, when they raised the drinking age from 18 to 21 in New York, 18-20yos were not grandfathered. I remember seeing news stories where they showed liquor stores jammed with 18-20yos who were stocking up. They interviewed a guy who had just turned 18 and was stocking up on all the booze he wanted to get through the next three years...

Maybe they should do this: 18-20 year olds can have wine with dinner as long as they appear to be with their parents or adults old enough to be their parents. But then again, that too would be a little difficult to enforce!

ETA: Mentioning this because I'm carded much less often when I'm out with my parents than when I'm with friends.

That's right, they're not. That's because alcohol is not "taboo" for them and most have been around it since they were small. Even when I was in Ireland, I never saw anyone abuse alcohol the way I've seen people do over here, and you know how everyone thinks all the Irish are drunks. Most people I saw would drink every day, but they wouldn't get sloppy drunk, it was just something to do to relax at the end of the day. The French and Germans that I was around were like that, too...the only possible exception I can think of was the English people I knew, and they did tend to get smashed, but at least they were halfway responsible about it, you know, they didn't go driving cars or anything. Alcohol isn't the problem, it's what people do with it. My parents have always let me drink here at home, and I think that's why I don't drink much at all when I go out; I usually don't even drink at all. Americans are so uptight about all the wrong things. ;)

OK so lets have Taxes set so high on the first 2 American cash crops that made this country be able to survive=Alchohol and Tobacco.

While there is a Driven Group as "IT IS BAD" because of abuse then are they not getting as bad about troding on the foot steps of the past?

War On Drugs=A Joke. More Money Spent=0! For Results.
One Tobacco Company Paid 19 Billion $ to the Federal Govt., in 2000 more than any other Corporation in the USA! That was just one! 3 Other Majors of The Tobacco Industry, I will not count the Liquor Business.:o

I don't think it's that binge drinking is "cool" - I think it's more that people get used to the ritual of guzzling down enough to get them drunk before they go someplace that's dry. That is how they learn to drink - as opposed to learning to drink wine w/ meals etc.

Our fraternities were far from rich and so they didn't get the 50 kegs or whatever for a party. There would be plenty of times when we'd be bitching about only getting one beer because the party kicked so quickly.

3.2 beer at 18, regular beer & wine at 19, liquor at 21. Yes it'll probably be a giant clusterf*&k for a couple years, but the prohibition that young adults are subject to now is no more effective than the 18th Amendment was.

one more thing...
 

If we TRULY are above the norm, if we TRULY want to give the
young person a good life experience like we say we do...
then let us educate the young, in our mentoring, in our pledge
or new member programs.
Let us LEAD BY EXAMPLE....
Let us, prithee do, then, refuse to have booze or drugs in the
house. Let us be the leaders, the scholars, the sagacious ones
we purport to be. Look anew at your Rituals...do.
And let us drink, and drink deeply, drink from the flagon of
Fraternity, the greatest youth movement ever.
Sound nice?..then do it! It is a wise step to the greatness we
once had....we have stumbled, yes, but we have not fallen.
Fraternally from an old Teke...for all...EPC

Erik, the problem with that is that it says that drinking is a BAD thing. It's not. Drinking in moderation actually makes you healthier.

And I don't think we set much of an example by not having alcohol (or drugs) in the house if we indulge in them elsewhere. It's the zenith of hypocrisy and NIMBYism. As you said, if we truly care about our members we will educate. Not prohibit.

Do I think Calva, Juliette & the gals had keggers at their house? No. Do I think they would enjoy alcohol responsibly if they were around today? Yes.