I think the nuisance of nationals harassing chapters over numbers is being exagerated.

I believe all chapters can have that issue regardless of whether they're national or local. If you're in a local organization and your numbers drop signifcantly you may not have to deal with a national office but if you have an organized alumnae base you'll definitely hear from them. Plus if a chapter has a house national or not you need to maintain a certain number of members to keep the house affordable.

Co-sign. Also:

Believe it or not, nationals would rather NOT become THAT involved with a chapter to the point where it seems like harassment. That's usually reserved for chapters who have CONSTANT issues that don't get better. We only see our traveling consultant maybe twice a year, but chapters dealing with hazing allegations, constantly low GPA's, debt,or EXTREMELY low numbers will see them maybe every 2 months. So it will probably get annoying but nationals is just doing it's job to make sure we're all functioning to the standard of the sorority.

And ALL NPC HQ's HATE to close chapters. It's not like they sit around in their offices gleefully thinking of who to close down next. Closing a chapter is the worst part of their job. Also, when a chapter is closed, it's usually for one of the issues listed above. And it's not like the MINUTE you dip below total, your chapter is closed. Most chapters closed for numbers reasons are severely below (Not 15 when everyone else has 22, I mean like 20 when everyone else has 90) And that chapter with 20 has had at least 2 years or so to pull up it's numbers.

I think in ways, it is also different for girls in locals, if locals are the only things that are offered to you. I go to a school that has 7 local sororities, and no national ones. Yes, I will admit, I am kinda fascinated with how NPC sororities run, but my sorority is one of the oldest ones on campus, and I'm really dang proud of that.

Also, as it has been pointed out, Dues are WAY cheaper. We pay 90 a year, and then also do fundraising, but that goes plenty far when you're not paying HQ, or dealing with chapter houses.

I have a point of contention with the "not having to follow the rules" thing. We DEFINITELY have to follow the rules, as close if not closer than a national organization. While most of our chapters are 80+ years old, if we step out of line...we're done. We have no national office to go to, no financial help to dip into, (in most cases) no high powered alumni to go to for help. We have to monitor and govern our chapters very very closely or we're simply done because the school holds our chapters in the palm of their hand. They've closed several chapters over the years (Some have returned, others havent, some have faded in and out). So we have a lot more rules about the rules than most people do. Our finances are extremely important. While the cost is very reasonable, we still have to pay and do fundraisers. But I think that the strength of local chapters is evidenced by the fact that almost all of the original founding groups of Otterbein are STILL on the campus, STILL taking members, and STILL having a proud tradition.

My local's numbers will dip and raise all the time but it's never hurt us so badly that we've had to close down. Our 151st birthday is Wed. My campus had a local actually return last year. It just depends on the campus and what kind of orgs you have.

We have an amazing amount of traditions that are passed down year to year. Plus we can add our own in too! It's great!

I have total respect for nationals and I love to learn about them. I'm totally into the Greek system! (although i still havent figured out what tikis are!!!)

Local or national, big or small...it all comes down to how you represent and respect your letters/org. You can have 5 people and work your butts off with a positive repuatation and be just as successful as 100 people.

Yes being national gives you help when you request it, but financial help is not just a check in the mail. My chapter had major money issues, and we were not just given a check. WE had to work them out, find a solution and get the money. WE had to come up with a plan to prevent this from reoccuring. Our advisors were very important for this, as well as our alumnae. However, our alumnae are only 5 years out max. We are a young chapter. Alumnae should not be tied in just by a national organization, and in many cases are more tied in through the chapter rather than just HQ. Being national is not like being Harry Potter. We don't have any magical resources, except for assistance with organization, something that 100+ year old locals can have as well, if not better.

while i understand your point, i think that buttonz was just pointing out that on her campus, the locals don't have to follow any rules. some colleges are more involved in what the greek orgs are doing. if a campus doesn't recognize a local, they certainly can do whatever they want. no one from campus is going to be checking up on them. it really just depends on the college.

just to clarify about Buttonz and my school. Our locals are recognized by the school but our schools involvement is very minimal. We have a greek advisor and though he is very involved, beyond booking meeting rooms and providing general guidance there are no hard rules. He's basically like don't do anything that will get people sued or arrested and don't do anything on campus that will piss off the administration or really hurt your rep. Its kind of a see no evil, hear no evil policy. While I am sure a lot of national chapters around the country break the rules and haze to some extent and drink when they are not suppose to we are more conscious of risk management and reputation concerns b/c its been drilled in our heads by our national. If a national does haze they don't announce i to everyone on campus.

Our locals are not discreet and I have seen pledges wearing sandwhich boards, signs, pledge shirts, bags and screaming greetings on campus which announce their affiliation to everyone. One has had letters to the editor complaining about line-ups in both our campus paper and another regional campus where they are trying to expand. Their main means of recruitment is parties and mixers with a lot of alcohol.

Meanwhile the NPC chapters follow all the NPC rules. But a lot of girls rush the locals thinking they look like they have a lot of fun. A lot more girls drop pledging the locals. And while my chapter has at least 3 girls that dropped pledging locals and Buttonz's chapter has at least 2 including herself its very hard to win good girls back over to pledging b/c they don't realize the difference.

And I know this isn't the situation on most campuses especially where associate membership in panhel gives locals almost all the same rights as a national. But in New York and to some extent NJ this is the situation on many campuses. And of course I have heard that nationals haze but I almost always hear "this national makes their pledges do this but there is this crazy local..."

I am sure I am going to get a lot of crap for saying this but that's what I have experienced around me.

You shouldnt get crap for contributing to the convo. I'm in a local and I'm not about to give you crap. I think its great that you guys are strict about hazing and what not!

Keep in mind though, that when a local becomes an associate member of panhel, they are then required to follow the unanimous agreements. For us the biggest obstacle is that one local is trying to go national, but the school has decreed that the other must part of panhel if it is created. So now the one local that does want to go national is not being allowed because the other local refuses to follow the npc agreements.

I guess what I'm saying is that first you have to get the local to agree to give up some of its independence before it can join panhel.

was this gibberish? If so, I apologize.

no matter which side you're on, there seems to be a lot of generalizing from memebers of locals and nationals here about each other and themselves.

not every national sorority
-has a huge membership or huge NM classes
-has a house
-has to worry about constant visits from nationals

not every local sorority
-has a small membership
-is a crazy group of hazers

i know all these points have been made, but i see a lot of generalization in this thread, and that's one thing i hate! a certain ms. robbins did it a lot in a certain book.... blah.

yeah she did, lol

anyways, Im proud to be local and I'm thrilled to have national friends on greekchat! Happy Holidays to all of you!

I have got to say this, simply because of a conversation I had with someone (not from GC).

Locals don't exist to be fodder for nationals. Our goal has never been and probably never will be to go national. I would be incredibly upset to lose what makes my chapter so unique. It drives me nuts when people assume that we're always just axiously awaiting a national charter.

I don't know why I'm bugged by the constant "discreet" talk. When I was a pledge, I wanted to shout my affiliation from the hills (if ohio had any). I wore my pin and my bandana with pride (and in jeans!). Not once during 6 weeks of pledging was I forced to do anything. In fact, there were active sisters who chose not to do certain things because they didn't want to. There was always an open door policy. We lost a girl the first week of pledging, and everyone still loves her to death.

</rant>. Sorry.

I'm just damned proud to be local, no matter how ugly my hawaiian shirt.

Wow nicely put lol. I haven't read any of the other posts but I saw yours read it and thought I would say Well put. I pledged a local sorority too. I know that national ones have their perks and so do local ones, the point is I found a group of gals that was right for me on my campus when I was still a student down in Rio...oh and the only thing I must complain about you saying though is the hills. Lima has none where I am now, but honey southeast Ohio has plenty where I went to school! :p ;) Just had to give ya hard time on that part ;)