i think that's one of the best aspects of our recruitment. i have so many friends that were in different chapters. i lived with girls from other chapters. many of my friends lived with girls from other chapters. and a lot of this was because you made friends early on that just happened to pledge different houses. everyone, of course, had strong bonds with the girls from their pledge class and chapter, but it was a lot easier to have friends in other chapters than i've seen happen with friends of mine who went to other schools that rushed right as they got there.

Re: are these poor little overworked
 

I agree with FSUZeta.

Incoming freshman often select their college based on various potential campus experiences in addition to their academic pursuits. Greek life can/may be one of them.

If deferred rush is to help kids academically, help develop friendships or whatever else it is purposed to do, then why not deffer all extracurricular activities as well?

And to be clear, I'm not talking about incoming freshman on scholarship (such as the student-athlete or theatre major on scholarship) but the incoming freshman who wants to participate in plays, marching band, intramural sports, student government, religious organization, political clubs, dorm councils in addition to their academic pursuits.

These activities, clubs, groups make for a well rounded college experience.

Frankly, I don't understand how one extracurricular activity (Greek life) should be differed while others are not.

Re: Re: are these poor little overworked
 

Simple. Because being Greek is a lifetime commitment.

If you join the band or hall council and it sucks, you can quit. It's not a big deal. Greek membership should not be that way.

No NPHC member can join their first semester, and overall, the number of members that continue to show commitment to their groups as alumni is far greater than that of NIC or NPC. I don't think this is a coincidence.

So if you ask why it's not treated like other extracurriculars, it's because it's NOT like other extracurriculars.

That was a response to the comment about upperclassmen being discriminated against in schools without deferred rush...

I think the biggest problem is not the effects of D.R. but that it is an imposition on your freedom and choices as an organization. Now, if a GLO says, "I want to have deferred rush, so that's what I'm going to do" that's one thing. But, these schools aren't giving you all an option!!

By the way,

Are you sure this is true of all campuses??

Re: Re: Re: are these poor little overworked
 

I agree that Greek life is not like other extracurriculars. And yes, being Greek is a lifetime commitment. Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part.

There will always be members who end up going inactive or disaffiliating from their GLO. And perhaps someone who has taken more time to prepare or understand the commitment is less likely to do so. But that seems to point to the GLO (or NPC/IFC) taking responsibility to educate potential new members on what being Greek means and the commitment that entails. Something that NPHC members do very well.

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I have faith that a freshman can make that commitment. :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: are these poor little overworked
 

I do too....once they have a semester to get adjusted to college life. When you are away from home and your parents' constant supervision for the first time you have a lot of learning to do. You can't be in the 160 clubs and activities like you were in high school. It's easy to bite off more than you can chew and get into something without realizing its gravity. NPHC members know that before they even decide to pursue membership formally. The proper time to understand the responsibilities of Greek life is before you receive a bid, not after.

Jeni, AFAIK (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot join an NPHC group ANYWHERE if you have not completed at least one semester of college. This applies to AKA, DST, ZPhiB, SGRho, APhiA, Omega Psi Phi, KApsi, Phi Beta Sigma and Iota Phi Theta. Anyone else, it doesn't. Does that answer your question?

I've been waiting a while to put in my $.02, so here it is:
I went to a school that did deferred recruitment (freshman can only rush second semester) and there are Pros and Cons just like doing it in the Fall. Based on my experience both as a Rushee and as a Sorority Member, here are my thoughts:
Pros: You have time to adjust to campus, make friends, and find your niche without the pressure of rushing and pledging. You also have time to decide if you truly want to join a sorority (so you don't just come to campus and rush and decide it's not for you and sit around waiting for everyone else to arrive on campus because you dropped out). You can see what the visibility is of certain GLOs on campus and see what they do with their philanthropy (some sororities have events 1st semester e.g. AnchorSplash--put on by Delta Gamma and Phi Ball--a kickball tourney put on by Alpha Phi). Less girls drop out during pledging because they already know their time commitments prior to rushing and most girls really know they want to be Greek.
Cons: Many girls already come into rush with impressions of the various sororities (the BIGGEST con). Some girls don't rush because they're already too involved in other campus activities. Some girls don't rush because they have to come back early from Winter Break (btw, I think this is the STUPIDEST excuse--but I've heard it--in my opinion they shouldn't be Greek if they worry about not having 4 weeks of vacation instead of 3).

I really liked having deferred recruitment when I was rushing because I got a chance to make friends before Rush, and not just rely on a sorority for my social scene (I'm the type of girl that has various groups of friends, not just one). I knew tons of girls that went to each sorority on campus, plus still had my GDI friends too.
But I will say that when I was in a sorority deferred recruitment had its down side. Some great girls I knew didn't rush because they were already active in other orgs and didn't think they needed a sorority too. Plus it sucks when girls come into rush with their mind made up based off of what they 'heard' about the various sororities--but I'm sure that happens too with Fall Rush (although maybe not to the same extent).
My school has thriving Greek Life for both sororities and fraternities. Our Panhel expanded from 5 to 6 sororities this year, and IFC has 12 fraternities. I don't know about IFC, but the number of girls rushing NPCs has increased from 220 (when I rushed in Spring '99) to well over 300 this year.
So, there you have it folks; my opinion on deferred recruitment. It's not the end of the world if UNC-CH decides to do it; but there may be consequences for doing so (when Wash. U. switched to deferred recruitment it really hurt one sorority in particular that ended up folding in 2000--however, the other 5 managed fine).

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: are these poor little overworked
 

If this is such a concern for a college, then why not deffer everything other than academics?

With all due respect, I don't think anyone can fully understand the responsibilities of Greek life before they receive their bid.

Both the university and the Greek community needs to take the responsibility to educate students about Greek life. Yes, this may be done effectively with differed rush; however, it can also be done effectively before a student ever sets foot in class.

Perhaps, every incoming freshmen should receive detailed information on not only Greek life, but all organizations that are available to them as a freshmen. And what the commitment entails. This can be followed up at freshman orientations. Either during the summer or at the start of the term.

And any freshman interested in Greek life (potential new members) may not join a GLO - or any organization - until they complete this orientation.

---

On a personal note, when I went through Freshman Orientation - during the summer and at a major Southern school - we had mandatory sessions facilitated with current students and specific to student life. No parents or school officials were allowed to attend. In these sessions, it was discussed what to expect and how college life is different than high school. Included was what it meant (time commitment, costs, affect on studying, etc.) to be a member of GLOs, other groups, clubs and organizations. The discussions included dorm life, living off campus, being in the marching band, what have you.

Freshmen would ask specific questions and to their credit, the current students were very frank with their responses about what to expect with college life. For example, if the question was about the marching band, you were informed of the time requirements. Say practice from 4 to 6 p.m. every day. Thus it was advised that if you wanted to be in band, that you not schedule any classes during that time. And if there were other organizations that met during that time, you would have to make a choice.

Frankly, after these sessions, anyone who did not have an understanding of the difference between high school and college - and the whole experience - should not be there in the first place.

If someone is unsure, then they simply wait (deffer) their choice to participate in college life - what ever that may be - until they are ready to do so.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: are these poor little overworked
 

because being in the hall council isn't a lifetime commitment!!!!!!!

Any org should tell the members what to expect, especially for things like band, but it's STILL NOT THE SAME AS GREEK LIFE.

and you apparently missed the post where I said at many universities that have first semester rush, you DON'T have a choice if you want to look at all the sororities (and have them look at you). It's do it right away or have your choices severely curtailed. That's the problem.

33girl-

I did read your previous posts and feel that they are "right on"! So I would like to apologize if it did not seem that I had. :(

In any case, you posted: "I said at many universities that have first semester rush, you DON'T have a choice if you want to look at all the sororities (and have them look at you). It's do it right away or have your choices severely curtailed. That's the problem."

From a male (IFC) point of view, this sounds more like a Panhellenic issue and not a Greek life issue per say.

By the way, you wrote that Clarion used to have first semester rush for fraternities and deferred rush for sororities. Is that still the case? Do you feel it "worked"? Were there any issues with it?

sorry, didn't mean to shout. :)

I agree that what you referenced is a Panhellenic issue. But sometimes I think it's easier to change the direction the earth spins than change NPC. :) So it's just easier to make the school the bad guy.

I thought men first, women deferred worked fine. (Keep in mind that we did not have huge houses - you could conceivably never have to live in.) Another component of this was that little sisters still existed then, and they could pledge first semester. I saw a LOT of little sisters who got into it without knowing which end was up and ended up quitting. That's part of my rationale. Freshmen women can now pledge first semester there. IMO it hasn't solved the "don't look at rep" problems, it has added to them, but that's just my opinion.

ETA (partially in response to RW's post) that when I say we had deferred rush, freshmen were not forbade from talking to sorority members and there wasn't a semester long rush counselor disaffiliation or any of that silliness. the only silence period was while actual rush was happening. When you have deferred and don't let rushees get to know the sorority members in a non-rush environment it defeats the whole purpose.

Comrade TSteven, this is not only more of a PanHel issue, but to someone who has been a sales manager, its also about how the NPC method of recruitment is inherently flawed. You're selling your product the wrong way, and in the wrong time frame. I'd like to see a PanHel be brave enough to question the "rules of fairness" that only benefit the strongest. The most effective recruiting, with regard to retention rates, is when a prospect is recruited for a period of several weeks, not days.

I am not getting into this debate. :D

Update: Changes Needed? "Dying" System?
 

A March 27, 2004 article in the Durham/ Chapel Hill / Research Triangle area Herald-Sun gives an update on the views and issues surrounding proposals for deferred rush and other changes for Greek -- especially IFC -- life at U of North Carolina- Chapel Hill:

http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-463739.html

Quotes from Chapel Hill trustees, fraternity alumni, current fraternity members, background on parental complaints, etc. -- interesting. Some advocacy of increased alumni involvement and oversight regarding fraternities is mentioned.

What do you expect from UNC.

:)

I personally favor rush in the Spring, preferably the week before classes start.

UNC has had two chapters close in two years. It may help them to put off formal recruitment