well then, if you ban pit bulls and other violent breeds, breeders will find some way around it. They'll start breeding poodles and german sheppards together. We'll have a poodle sheppard. The worlds new fighting machine.

(obviously I'm being sarcastic, but like I said before, and dog is violent, wich in turn means it can be bred for fighting or it can eb trained to fight. The only real solution is getting rid of all dogs...except Lady...my friends tiny and very old Chiuaua with no teeth and then even then she's a real bitch!)

actually a poodle shepherd would be a not nice combination. poodles are not very nice dogs.

they'd be the foofoo fighters!!! lol

shelley j
sigma k

You make NO sense. Certain dogs were bred for fighting and others weren't. This doesn't mean all are and the solution is to get rid of all of them.

-Rudey

I make perfect sense. It's you who doesn't know what you're talking about.

I know pitbulls were bred for fight. But WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY...
is that this doesn't preclude other breeders from trying to breed other dogs for the same purpose.

BANNING ONE BREED DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

OK no you're retarded. You lack total common sense and logic and I just won't post again about this. Banning any breed meant for fighting WILL HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

-Rudey

Banning breeds that are meant for fighting include dobermans. How would you like it if as a child some authority came and said, hey we have to take your dog away because it's a fighting dog. I don't think you'd be too happy. But then again I don't know you. You might not care.


Rudy you're juvenille behaviour is really starting to irritate me. When you know you're wrong you have to result to name calling. Sometimes Rudy you can't have the last word.

And I do not think people should be given the option of owning a Doberman. A Doberman was not bred to fight however like pitbulls but were bred as police dogs.

-Rudey

As far as I'm concerned, you haven't made one good point in this thread or any other. I have a right to express my opinion, as do you, and everyone else. No, I don't think that I'm smarter than anyone - I do have a good degree from a good school and a great job but what does that matter? You're posts are worthless - just go away already!

Rudey, This is for you!


History (Amstaff.Ws Version)
Written by Imad Birkholz
Some people only take the history as far back as 1936, when the Staffordshire Terrier was first registered with the AKC (American Kennel Club). It goes back a lot further though. It's possible to trace it back to the early 1800's. Migrants from England (and surrounding areas) which settled in America brought with them dogs
that were basically the smaller Staffordshire Bull Terriers.

Those Staffordshire Terriers were used in older times in the dubious sport of Bull Baiting. This was eventually banned in 1835, and many punters were left in the lurch. This started a
trend in dog fighting. After all, they already had tough dogs that were willing to please the owners any way they could. Eventually they mixed them with larger Bull Dogs, which ended up giving them a slightly bigger dog that was the forerunner to the American Staffordshire of today. Some of the dogs were used
for dogfighting, yet they had to be friendly towards humans. Any dogs which didn't conform to this were destroyed. This meant that the breed was never really a threat to people, and hence became known as a people friendly dog, sometimes getting the term "nanny dog". Unfortunately this fighting heritage is what most people think of when talking about American Staffordshire Terriers, and related breeds. It is also very likely that this history is also shared with the American Pit Bull Terrier. Some people will not like this comparison, but it's clear when reading about the two breeds.

An interesting example of this is a dog called "Pete", from "The Little Rascals". Some Amstaff siteswill tell you that Pete was an American Staffordshire Terrier, yet some sites refer to him as an American Pit Bull. I have also seen a site where it's claimed he is an American Bull Dog. They can't even be sure where exactly
the dog is buried, so the mistery continues. If anything, it proves that the early Amstaff and APBT (and perhaps even the American Bull Dog) must have been very similar dogs at that time, and by nature were not aggressive toward humans.

In 1936 the American Kennel Club recognised the Staffordshire Terrier. And finally in 1972 the name was changed to American Staffordshire Terrier, to distinguish it from the English Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The dog of that time was a superb farm dog. It was treated as such, and was also used on pig hunts and other farm duties. Basically it was an allround utility dog, that had earned the respect of the people of its time.

Since the early 1900's breeders moved away from the dog fighting heritage, and now concentrated on dogs with good stable temperaments, although it's the dogs history which gives the American Staffordshire of today it's admirable qualities.

The breed has suffered many set backs in recent times due to a minority of selfish breeders/owners who use this breed for fighting purposes, and other similar ones, as a vehicle to pursue their own personal narrow minded path to self gratification and glory. A minority of people use this dog in an agressive fashion,
and unfortunately also in underground dog fighting competitions. This could prove a major hurdle for those people who treat this breed with respect, as very strict laws, regarding dog ownership, are coming into place all over the world. The future of this breed requires the help of dedicated owners/breeders, who treat the American Staffordshire Terrier with respect and love, and who are willing to educate the public about this breed.

Note:

Many breeders really go out of their way to seperate themselves from the Pit Bull Terrier tag, while others ignore it all together, and don't even mention anything about that in their history. That's fair enough, but is probably more of a business decision, rather than a decision based on genetics.

I have absolutely nothing against American Pit Bull Terriers by the way...in the right hands they are great dogs, just like the Amstaff. I'm one of those people that actually believes they are very very similar. (I will refrain from using "the same", as over the past 70 odd years there are probably some differences, but I don't think enough to warrant the phrase "Totally different breed".) If you disagree, go to the Forum and voice your opinion.

Nearly all breeders will say in their history that the Amstaff is a totally different breed,(or dog).

Here are some of the reasons given (from various breeder sites):

"...Amstaff has been bred along completely different lines than its predecessor the Pit Bull."

"...has been bred as a pet, family dog, guardian, show dog and for obedience and agility competition."

I even came across the same phrase on different sites! As if it was coppied completely!
Well, what lines exactly are they, and what exactly differentiates them from the APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier)?

I understand it's difficult for breeders to make this breed "pallatable" to the general public. The average person on the street may already have a pre conceived idea of American Pitbull Terriers, and other similar dogs. We can thank the media for this.

Don't get me wrong, throughout all this you must be thinking, that I'm totally against these dogs. I'm not, I love them to bits, and I am a loyal Amstaff owner.
I'm just trying to give as much information to a possible owner. As an owner you should be armed with as much information as possible, so that you are in the best possible shape to understand your dog, grow with it, train it, and maybe ready yourself against possible prejudice.

Last Updated (17 October 2003)





And Another

Introduction
The City of Cincinnati and some surrounding communities have banned them. The City of Fairfield, Ohio first declared them vicious and then banned them, and the State of Ohio lumps them in with breeds “commonly known as a pit bull dog” and calls them vicious.

The media stirs the pot with stories about rampaging pit bulls and deadly attacks, and the public is frightened.

The object of all this attention is a group of dogs loosely referred to as “pit bull dogs” or “pit bull terriers” and specifically including three or four breeds that have not been bred for fighting for decades and that were not aggressive to humans even when they were bred for fighting. The reason for the attention is the irresponsible actions of some owners of these dogs — owners who fail to properly socialize and train their animals or who actually use them for criminal purposes.

The American Staffordshire Terrier takes the brunt of the criticism, but the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the American Pit Bull Terrier, and even the Bull Terrier share the notoriety.

These breeds come from the same basic stock in England. After bull and bear baiting were outlawed in 1835, gamblers promoting blood sports turned their attention to dog fighting and to development of a breed with the tenacity and valor of the Bulldog (then resembling the modern American Staffordshire Terrier, now evolved into a squat, bowlegged sourpuss) and the agility of a terrier. Known originally as bull and terrier dogs, the crosses eventually produced the Staffordshire Terrier, a fierce fighter in the pit but easy to handle during training and when injured, and the Bull Terrier, a breed with a Roman nose and equal talent in the pits.

The first Staffordshire Terriers came to America as early as 1870, where they evolved into two separate breeds: the American Pit Bull Terrier breed first registered by the United Kennel Club in 1898 and the non-fighting dogs that eventually gained recognition with AKC under their British name. For a few years, UKC regulated dog fighting, but ceased its support decades ago and will expel members suspected of involvement in this illegal activity.

American pioneers enjoyed the versatility of the Staffordshire Terrier as vermin dog, homestead protector, and even hunting companion and herder. However, although it recognized the related Bull Terrier in 1885, AKC stalled recognition of the dog known in the US as the American Pit Bull Terrier until 1936, when it accepted the breed as the Staffordshire Terrier.

Meanwhile, back in England that same year, The Kennel Club recognized the original bull and terrier dog as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

As often happens, selective breeding in the US produced a bull and terrier dog larger than its British forebears. So, although the Staffordshire Terrier of the AKC and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England were virtually the same dog in the beginning, they now differed enough that AKC renamed its breed the American Staffordshire Terrier. Then, in 1974, AKC accepted the Staffordshire Bull Terrier into its ranks.


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Days of infamy
Because of their fighting heritage, three of the four American bull and terrier breeds were destined to be misunderstood and maligned even decades after the breeds' fighting days were ended. Tales of unprovoked vicious attacks, jaws with the strength of Hercules, and dogs climbing on cars and even into trees to reach frightened victims seem to occur in bunches in newspapers all over the country, and each such spate of stories is often followed by a ban on the breeds.

However, just as with other breeds and mixes, the attacks by these dogs can be traced to human error or malfeasance — the dogs involved were likely to be poorly trained and socialized or deliberately trained to attack humans.

The majority of American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and American Pit Bull Terriers have responsible owners who do not allow their pets to run loose and terrorize the neighborhood, yet these folks and their dogs suffer along with the irresponsible owners when a ban is imposed. The publicity given “pit bull” cases suggests there is a plethora of these dogs around, but AKC registered only 1810 individual Staffordshire Bull Terriers and 549 litters in the six years from 1990-1995, and 6588 American Staffordshire Terriers and 1803 litters in the same period. People who breed these dogs for fighting or criminal purposes do not register with either AKC or UKC.


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Care and training
These breeds are easy care. The incidence of hip dysplasia is relatively low, and dogs are generally healthy. Coat care is minimal, and need for exercise is moderate. However, training is an absolute, no-excuse requirement, for like most other terriers, they can be stubborn and independent.

As with other hard-headed breeds, training begins with selection of a breeder who chooses only dogs of good temperament to produce puppies and accustoms the puppies to handling before they go to new homes. A breeder with an belligerent bitch or dog and fearful or aggressive puppies is to be avoided at all costs. Puppies should remain in the litter until they are eight weeks old to get the full benefit of interaction with brothers and sisters.

Training continues when you get the pup to your home. Good manners commands such as sit, stay, down, and come are essential for good control. Tug-of-war games are strongly discouraged as they tend to make the dog use his mouth to get his way. When puppy shots are completed at about 16 weeks of age, you should begin instruction in a puppy kindergarten class. If you do not have the time to put into training a guardian breed, don't get an AmStaff or Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

[More on obedience training]
AmStaffs and Staffordshire Bull Terriers kept as pets should be spayed or neutered to moderate territorial behavior and discourage the tendency to escape in search of a mate. As with other guardian breeds, these dogs should never be tied or chained outside unattended, and they should never be subjected to teasing by children or adults who want to goad them into growling or “attacking.”

Even with all these common sense precautions, dogs of these breeds can become aggressive or vicious just as dogs of all breeds and mixes can. However, the great majority of AmStaffs and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are loyal, courageous, and fun-loving companions, good with considerate children, guardians of home and hearth, and affectionate to family relatives and friends.

See also Ozzie Foreman's article “My dog was banned in Cincinnati”
[More on finding a dog]
Norma Bennett Woolf


Let me know if you want more.

You posted what I said. Yes the caretakers, if attacked, were supposed to kill the dogs so they would never attack a human. They were still bred to fight. There is a potential in these dogs that many who are not bred to fight don't have. You can't seem to respond to that and I'm sure you'll cure and insult me again.

-Rudey

All dogs are violent - no matter what the breed is. My aunt works as a nurse in an ER and just the other day (after I told her what kind of dog I have) she said, that they have more dog bites from labs and dalmations COMBINED then they do with ALL of the bully breeds (am staff, pit, bull terrier....). You don't seem to see the side that everyone else has pointed out. I've come to the realization that you are what you say you are, immature and cocky - among many other things including close minded. You haven't added anything useful to this thread - you've pretty much just thrown it into the toilet. I don't like you - I think that's more than obvious - and I don't appreciate some of the things you say to myself and other members of GC. I read your posts, but I don't reply to them - can you do the same for me? That would make my time here on GC A LOT better.

I knew you'd do it again. You couldn't respond and once again went back to the insults.

All dogs can be violent just as much as all humans can be, but not all dogs are bred for fighting.

On top of that the funniest thing is you're not from Chicago and are trying to effect Chicago legislation.

-Rudey

It's not about the fact that it's in Chicago - it's the fact that it's in the US and once they start in one city, who knows how it will spread. All I'm trying to do is help the people of Chicago and hope that if what is happening with them, happens to me, they will do the same. Get over it Rudey.

Personally, I don't think that anybody should be allowed to breed ANY animal until all of the homeless dogs and cats have homes. There is absolutely no good reason to be creating more animals when too many exist already. That said, I think that calling for a ban of a specific breed is completely out of line, especially the part about giving owners 30 days to "dispose" of their dogs. I would prefer it if police would do more to crack down on people involved in dogfighting and other forms of animal abuse.

Exactly! valkyrie gets it...I don't know why some people are having difficulty with this concept. The problem is not the breed, it's what people do with/to the breed.
What there needs to be a harsher punishments for those involved in dogfighting or those convicted of animal abuse.

Also, many dog bites are not random attacks. No one ever hears if the victim was in any way provoking the dog.
My uncle when he lived in Virgina has a beautiful Sharpei. One of the sweetest move loveable dogs ever. Wouldn't hurt a fly. All he ever did was slobber on you. Well one day the dog bit their nextdoor neighbours 5 year old son. This was no random attack. The stupid little kid (yes he was stupid for behaving like and so were the parents for letting their kid do this to the dog) was pulling the dogs tail, poking him in the eye, throwing rocks at him, teasing him, etc, etc. The poor dog put up with a lot of crap before he felt he needed to defend himself. So the dog bit the child. Well this family was in uproar. Threatening to sue my uncle, threatening to have the dog put down. In the end to avoid litigation and the death of the dog, the sent the dog back to the breeder in Canada.
My point is, not all dog attacks are random. You have to wonder if the "victim" was mistreating the dog in anyway. And I always wonder about this when the victim is a child, because some children (and parents) are stupid.