Once again, I don't know how that particular chapter operates, but I've been told by several SigEp alums that nationally they have a big push in making sure their guys make grades. Who knows if a chapter says "If you don't have a 3.5 at midterm, you don't get initiated" or if they take the bottom X% of the pledge class and excuse them due to grades, even though they made the national cutoff, the chapter can always set a higher cutoff.

I'm speculating of course, but I could see on a large campus like OU, if a chapter disagrees with IFC and want to say "screw you", they could theoretically create such stipulations (ones that would be allowable under bylaws, etc.) if they didn't actually want to keep all 75 members.

Once again, this is a speculation coming to you from left field.
PsychTau

The most idiotic part about a cap is the thinking that it will help smaller houses out. Essentially what it does is creates smaller houses at the top while the smaller houses stay small.

In this instance, had SigEp only taken 55 or whatever the cap was the remaining 20 would not have joined one of the smaller houses, they would've gone to another top house where they fit in and had friends. The trickle down theory wouldn't work because at some point, those really stellar guys wouldn't be satisfied with joining a subpar house...they'd want to go SigEp.

If the intent of the school is to actually assist the smaller to mid-range houses, they need to get their headquarters to come and help and they need to provide individual assistance through the Greek Affairs Office. I'd assert that there are some groups on the campus that don't want to get bigger. Essentially what is happening is the mid-range houses are trying to get larger and feel that by holding down SigEp, it will help them out.

My question is, with SigEp being on probation, how does that make it more fair to the other houses? I'd bet that SigEp goes and exceeds their cap again and exascerbates the situation. Pike, Sigma Nu, KA, Phi Psi, Phi Kappa Sigma, etc. all can't compete because they do not go out and aggressively recruit like they should and change the system like SigEp has done.

This is why I used the phrase "you could say" when I wrote: "Actually, you could say that a larger pledge class can afford a guy with grade issues more study partners."

I didn't mean to infer that large pledge classes have better grades. Just that there would be more members who might - note might - might be able to help and equally important, have the time to help.

I am not trying to start a debate regarding "large" pledge classes (or GLO chapters) versus "small". However, I am simply trying to point out that both size groups have similar requirements (minimum GPA) and obligations (mandatory events) regarding their GLO. That both "small" and "large" pledge classes spend time at the house, attend social events and participating in intramurals etc.

Now granted, you may not be able to spend as much time with each and every guy as you would like, but you do have the ability - note I used ability - to have any number of guys to hang out with at any given time. To help you with academics. To talk with you regarding problems. To join you in a pick up game of hoops. To just hang out with. Again, I am not saying that the larger the size the better the experience but that the experience can be just as rewarding.

Basically, you get out of your GLO what you put into it.

Just as good a place to come from as any where else. :)

Bingo!

Re: Free The Sig Ep 76!!
 

There isn't a single thing you said that I don't agree with here. Who composes the IFC? If the national offices support the SigEps, couldn't they force the locals chapters to follow suit?

-Rudey
--Good job!

Rudey-

There are no locals in IFC at OU. It is all National Chapters. I will try to remember them here:

Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Delta Upsilon
Beta Theta Pi
Pi Kappa Phi
Sigma Chi
Sigma Phi Epsilon
Delta Tau Delta
Phi Kappa Sigma
Sigma Nu
Alpha Tau Omega
Pi Kappa Alpha
Lambda Chi Alpha
Kappa Sigma
Kappa Alpha
Phi Delta Theta
FIJI
Phi Kappa Psi
Triangle

This is the list of everyone in IFC at OU, so the chances of any locals backing Sig Ep is not going to happen b/c they are not represented. However, with the backing of the big names fraternities, Sig Ep has a good chance at fighting this and getting it overturned

SoonerSAE,

I think what Rudey meant is could the national organization for the local chapter to support SigEp. Not really sure about this, it depends on the different fraternity national by-laws or policies regarding recruitment. I'm sure that they can exert tremendous pressure on the local chapter to support SigEp.

Before The Lawyers Get Involved
 

Before the lawyers get involved, the leading players probably should get together and work out a solution. Holding some fraternities back is not going to make more men join the houses perceived as weaker. The SAE is right: in the 1980s, fraternity chapters were larger than in the 1990s, but average chapter size is rising sharply again across the country. How many members a chapter has should be only the business if that fraternity. If they take "too many", then the organization will collapse from the weight of bad decisions. If they have "too few' to sustain a competitive position, the they will disappear. However, my experience time after time is that the big fish eat the little fish.

I never could understand the rationale for a cap for the fraternities. I understand that they would like to "level" the playing field. What if the Rushees do not want to joined any other fraternity. It;'s not going to help the smaller house because they will not get them anyway. It will harm the fraternities that are innovative and aggresive in their recruitment.

Caps
 

Other than Oklahoma, maybe Arkansas and a few small private schools, I don't know of any place in the country that tries to enforce a cap on fraternities. Can't help the little guys by keeping the big guys down.

yea i remember reading that on their homepage[about them takin 75]..that's awesome....what if the guys didnt wanna go to another frat? why wait...

up, since the fall rush season is almost upon us.

Well i must have missed this during the year but as you all may know i am a Pike At the University of Oklahoma currently:

And my opinion on the Number that they signed which is exactly what all 70+ of those guys are, a number. They did a great job rushing those guys, and they did it by the IFC rules except for the Cap rule which they agreed to. IFC only went after them on this because they broke a rule they agreed to and if someone breaks an IFC rule and gets away with it what is next Kegs in houses again, the ability to not adher to other rules set up to help fraternities stay out of legal trouble. Well the issue isn't that them signing that many guys helps or hurts the Greek system its the breaking of an IFC rule. And The original $20,000 dolar fine was repealed as was the social probation. The new rule because of them signing that many is to stop what will most likely happen from Beta And Lambda Chi and a few other houses that have the history of being the top house on campus from going out this next rush and signing a hundred plus without any reprocusions. Sig Ep came up in the past years due to their great rush and it is amazing that they could do it. We as well as alot of other houses lost potential pledges because of them breaking that rule. During rush nearly every guy came through on the last day before we could give out a bid card saying that it was down to US/Sig Ep/XYZ. So we could have easily have gotten 10 more guys if they hadn't of signed all those guys, but its fine because un like some houses on campus that get cap and then haze guys off they only lost maybe 5-10 guys during pledgship. And yes a house on campus is known to get cap and then haze off 15-20 guys and to them the rest of those guys are adequate to keep their numbers high.



Any questions about this ask me because I Go to OU and was there during the whole thing and i am good friends with Sig Eps here. Yeah and i am trying not to sound mad at the Sig Eps, of course at first we were but over time I see we were just out rushed by them on the guys that went them and not us.

Just wondering what happen at the end. Any new news?