Unfortunately lastpoetnsite, a lot of people cannot get past the homosexual part and address the real issue at hand that you bring up. I believe this is why so many homosexuals are oppressed. It's not that people can't see the bigger picture, they don't want to. It seems as if people took my post way out of context to justify why they don't agree with homosexuality. That was not the intent of my post. If it was taken as a whole. The point I was trying to stress and the reason for stating the quote I used was- TO TREAT OTHERS AS WE WANT TO BE TREATED. If you don't like to be oppressed, don't do it to someone else.

Ok, here's my question. Were the people killing the abortion doctors all Black?
You keep trying to take your post to the topic at hand, but there is so much rhetoric surrounding it. You keep using these examples, and then don't want us to focus on the examples. If you want to stick to the point, let's stick to the point. Were the people who killed the abortion doctors all Black? If not, then like you said, what about them?

Please give me a CONCRETE example of this HATRED that we as African-Americans have for another group of people. And I don't want examples about "a handful of people that said this" or "a handful of people that did that." Because it takes way more than a handful of people to oppress another group of people.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if I have misunderstood the topic. We are talking about Blacks oppressing other groups, right?

lastpoetnsite,
I think that besides a radical fringe that, I hope, does not frequent this site, you would be hard pressed to find someone who will advocate the killing of homosexual people because of their sexual orientation or doctors who perform abortions, regardless of their stance on either of these issues. I do think it is important to treat human beings with love, dignity and respect. I am a HR professional and I would no more deny someone a job/promotion (a form of oppression I believe) than I would someone who is an unwed mother (visual proof of premarital sex). These actions have nothing to do with someone's ability to do a job.

Let me ask you a question....How do you define oppression? What specific behaviors would one demonstrate when they oppress others?

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited April 11, 2001).]

EXACTLY!!!!!

Lastpoet,

Much respect, but your question is very simple and it really didn't take 33 posts to get it answered. Your question was how can blacks spew out words of hate against homosexuals and any other group when we know that hatered was the fuel for the murders of our ancestors.

You had your answer in the first couple of post. At least in my posts. Check my 1st, 3rd, and 5th posts. There you should find your answer. Ill reiterate it just for old times sake.

We as blacks as christians as people should not send hate out into the world by any means. Not through the words we speak the things that we do nor the the way we feel in our hearts. And again, that is simply a teaching of Christainity. Sin is by thought, word, and deed.

The reason why the posts took a slight turn was because the homosexuality portion was the original example you used to try and get us to see that by hating homosexuals we are just feeding the hate fires of racists.

I also addressed the fact that while a Chirstian should not address homosexuality with hatred, they do have a responsibility to witness to others about what God said about the issue (when the opportunity presents itself - Check my 3rd post), thus contributing to the bend in the direction of the posts, but at the same time explaining (not justifying) why some people speak so vehemently against homosexuality.

So I get it!!! I get it!!!! And now that your question has been answered (at least by me) maybe we wont need a post # 35.

[This message has been edited by serenity_24 (edited April 11, 2001).]

much respect...

my sista, serenity_24...much to your dismay...i must post a #35 but you are not required to read it. i recognize that throughout this thread you have given your answers. and they are appreciated. surely you did not believe that the post that i made before this one was in any way directed solely at yourself.

i appreciated that everyone was using an example from my question of how can black people use the rhetoric of hate used by those who would do us harm and justify these actions as right and at the same time call someone else a racist. but the fact was...everyone picked up the example about homophobia...and failed to recognize that there were other examples. like how we treat other racial or ethnic groups [for example=i have heard black people say things like "wetback", "spic", "jap", "jew 'em down", "sand nigger" etc.], or how we treat other religious groups [for example=i have heard black people call people sinners for believing in or celebrating santeria and yoruba. i have heard black people tell muslims that their religion is not real. or that they are going to hell] or how about how we treat one another [for example=why do we continue to use the word nigger? nigga...whatever...its still the same!]

now no one even talked about how these examples of oppressive speech can continue to divide us. and then on top of it...why do we even engage in this oppressive speech if we know what it is like for it to be used against us.

now some of you "get" where i was going. but the constant use of homophobia...instead of looking at the larger picture of oppressive speece, discrimination, bigotry etc. and how it affects our lives was disregarded.

again...as i have said in my past posts...i respect and appreciate everything that those of you have written. some i agree with some i do not. but in a thread such as this we must instead of trying to attack one another find some way to communicate without attacking, being accusatory, and attempting to shut one another down.

when i asked that no one else post to the thread...i saw that for the most part...this thread had descended to a discussion on the "morality" of homosexuality and how as a christian if one should or should not defend someone from being bashed *whether the words are extreme or not*. the thread was not being productive...and so i wanted to end it before there was a great shouting match.

so although i appreciated all of your posts...i just thought that before the thread got out of hand...and the ability to have rational intellectual conversation got completely thrown out the window...we could end it on a note of agreeing to disagree.

peace,
lastpoet

SERENITY24:

You said everything that I wanted to say with more clarity. When I saw that LASTPOETINSITE was running a pseudo-intellectual shell game , it wasn't worth it. You have pointed out her blatant disingenuousness in structuring her argument. She tries to sound gracious and accomodating in her responses when she really is the one being accusatory, biased, and prejudiced against those who don't side with her, especially Christians, whom she never failed to bash in each of her posts.

Can I get a yayman!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Doggystyle82:

Pseudo-intellectual? Disingenuous? Christian-bashing???

When and how exactly was lastpoetnsite being those things? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif I found her to be very respectful. I think that she presented herself in a very intellectual manner. I certainly didn't think that she was prejudiced against those who didn't agree with her. I think she is passionate about her beliefs, which happen to be different from the beliefs of some of the people on this thread.

There's nothing wrong with that.

As far as her being disingenuous...disingenuous means not straightforward or not candid. How was she not straightforward in her argument?

As far as Christian-bashing, I think she was giving her perspectives on the way some people use their Christianity and their beliefs to oppress others. It didn't appear that she was making an across-the-board criticism of Christianity in general. In fact, I don't think she ever said that she had anything against Christianity itself. After all, Christianity was never the topic of the original post. The original post was about how oppressed groups go onto oppress other groups.

Of course, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion...but I really can't see the evidence that she was playing a "pseudo-intellectual shell game." http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Lastpoet,

No, I did not feel that you were solely addressing me whith you last post. I was not the only person that made a direct comment to you. Howerver I felt like you didn't understand that we all had answered your question in the beginning and just in case "all" was inappropriate I added at least in my posts.

As for addressing the "other" examples you've provided, those examples were not part of the original post. Nowhere in your original post did you speak of things like "wetback", "spic", "jap", "jew 'em down", "sand nigger" etc.](please go back and review).

As for this thread becoming a shouting match and people "attacking" anothers opinion, I think that is far from what is happening. Everyone has come respectfully with their responses. By no means was anyone trying to make their opinion more important than the next mans in an attempt to "shut another down".

Maybe, in your opinion, a disscussion on the "morality" of homosexuality made you uncomfortable, but for others the thread was stimulating and enlightening. If you really want to stop homophobia, lets contiune this discussion. Maybe you could change someones heart on the matter. Ending the discussion because you don't like the direction it's going only perpetuates the problem.

I feel that if you want to adress homophobia, be prepared for the responses you will get. Know that inevitably we will all agree to dissagree.

Respectfully,
Serenity_24

Please apply this thought to all other contraversial topics that have been mentioned (i.e. preventing murder by killing).

Yep...I sure did understand her original post. So? And for the record, you don't know what or how much she and I have in common. What I took issue with in my last post was the disrespectfulness of your previous post, which I felt was unnecessary and unproductive to the conversation.

But, overall, you said a mouthful when you said: "We often see what we want to see and ignore what we choose not to see." That's a statement that can be applied to nearly everyone, including you. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Exactly my same thoughts.

much respect...

my brotha, doggystyle82, in a previous post i suggested to you that if you had any issue with my topic...with my questions...with anything that i had said to email me. i did not read the post that you had posted previously (the one that you deleted but others had read) in which i heard that you had belittled me. but still i respected your opinion.

then you post this...

...and i was stunned to say the least. you, my brotha make alot of assumptions about me and as you said in another post....you have chosen to only see what you would like to see. and you have been insulting...something that i would not expect from a person such as yourself who believes in a high moral standard.

but there is no need for me to attack you or your beliefs. that is not the way i work. i embrace all thoughts and beliefs as a persons personal truth. now i may not agree with those things...but i do respect them.

so what i will say to you is that as Jesus once said when asked what to do when people attack you...turn the other cheek. i am sure my brotha, doggystyle82, that you have a great wisdom that you would like to impart upon this thread...which i continue to welcome.

as two college-educated individuals i'm sure that we can continue to discuss the issue on the thread without attacking one another.

serenity_24...

you posted...
and i did go back and review...this is a statement i made in my original post. although it does not use those words that i used in a recent post it asks the reader to review other ways an oppressed group oppresses another group...here is the quote...

but as someone else said everyone pretty much chose to talk about homosexuality (the hot button topic) instead of looking at the things that we as black people do to other groups and ourselves.
it is true that i used the issue about homosexuality as one example but i also did say that there are other things that we should talk about too.

in addition you said...
a discussion on the "morality" of homosexuality did not in any way make me uncomfortable. it is a discussion that i have had many many times. i also really didn't see the thread doing anything to eliminate homophobia in most of the posts (with a few outstanding exceptions) it only served to perpetuate it. and as it usually is it was subtle...which of course people will say didn't exist and that is the insidiousness of homophobia and other forms of oppression.

i will agree that i didn't like the way the thread was moving because we were only focusing on homosexuals. There are other groups who we oppress...including ourselves...which we of course for the most part didn't touch.

and as you can see...instead of trying to work together to discuss the issues. it descended into having had an insult flung in my direction. one that you agreed with. but as i said above...i will turn the other cheek. if you are interested in emailing me you may do the same.

again thank you all for the responses. i respect your opinions...some i agree with some i don't...but they have all contributed to the interesting flow of this thread.

peace,
lastpoet




[This message has been edited by lastpoetnsite (edited April 13, 2001).]

Some of you all have TOO TOO much time on your hands...

This going back and forth has not gotten anyone anywhere. If you want to go back and forth, do so privately. If one does not adhere to what this POST POLICE has directed, then his or her posts will be deleted. Let others who want to post their opinon do so without being attacked.

Let's move on....