It wouldn't matter to me what color the men are, I would still feel the same way. I for one, don't care if your organization is dedicated to "your kind" or not. The problem I have is with the similiarities.

We understand we do not have exclusive use of certain things such as pearls, colors, or the ivy leaf. However, I feel when too many of these symbols are used collectively to define or represent another organization, then I have a problem with that regardless of the organization or the gender of its membership.

So, please don't come into our forum telling us about fact vs. heresay. It's not rituals we are speaking of. It is the presentation.

Let's just keep it real, shall we?

A pearl, or even 20, ok.
An Ivy leaf, ok.
January 15th, ok.
The purpose, ok.
Service to you kind, ok.

But all of the above, come on now. Cut the games.

Soror Ideal08, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure why you quoted me, DeltaBro1, but if you read the original message I was agreeing with, you will see that I have no quarrel with your organization's existence, purpose or anything like that. In fact, my soror and I were in agreement that you have a right to form any organization, greek-lettered included, that meets your needs.

I think many us are taking your organization to task for the seemingly purposeful duplication of symbols that have been associated with our sorority since its inception (or very near to it). Further, from what I understand, some people may be reacting to an email making the rounds, under your signature, that states that your group was formed out of an underground "sorority" of black gay men who stepped, did the AKA call and used our hand signs and other unofficial symbols, all while calling themselves men of Alpha Kappa Alpha. This message also stated that some of your group's members were the sons, brothers, etc. of our sorors, and were privy to our rituals and such and used them in their own ways. That, for me, is insulting, not flattering--for ANY group of people (men, women) to mimic us and use signs and symbols without being members of the group from which these things originated.

Salutations and Greetings:
I am an Enchanting Lady of Omicron Epsilon Pi Sorority, Inc. for feminine lesbian women. We stand proud of who we are and of the foundation that our founders have built. We were founded in the image of sisterly love and unity. There is, indeed, a need for such organization because many NPHC sororities/fraternities do not openly embrace lesbians into their orgs for various prejudices. Truly, there are some individuals who are members of these other sororities who could care less about another's sexual orientation but for the most part, it is an issue. I must disspell any and all fictional and miscontrued information that suggests that Omicron Epsilon Pi Sorority, Inc. is a fake sorority for we are NOT. Our journey to become a legit org. has been long and hard but, inevitably, we are here....standing tall, untarnished and without blemish!!!!!
However, I do agree that we all must respect each other's sororities/fraternities. I must say that I do not condone those who use others symbols, colors, hand gestures, paraphenalia etc. as their own. Omicron Epsilon Pi Sorority, Inc. has its own EVERYTHING! We do not borrow or steal anything from any other org. Our bruh-ther fraternity is Iota Lambda Pi Fraternity, Inc. for studly women of whom, also, has its own EVERYTHING! Please understand that I BLEED ROYAL BLUE AND PLATINUM. RESPECT THAT IN ME AND I WILL, UNDOUBTEDLY, RESPECT YOU AND YOURS!

------------------
"Everytime I tried to be what others thought of me, so caught up, I was unable to achieve; but deep in my heart, the answer was in me so I made up my mind to define my own destiny"-Lauryn Hill

When did sexual orientation become the topic of this thread? Can we focus on the real issue.

On that note, I will say that while I've heard of MIAKAs and other "little brother" organizations, I never came in direct contact with any such entity on my campus. I must say, though, I don't think little brother/sister organizations who exist on the basis of a greek-lettered organization serve their members well in the long run. I know those who've had no problem venturing beyond these orgs. into the sorority/fraternity of their choice, and I know of cases where they haven't. It seems to me that sometimes these little bro/sis things get taken too far (line, line names, calls, pledging, etc.) and sometimes have negative opinions associated with them (the "frat rat" rep of some female sweetheart orgs., the ???? of some male sweetheart orgs.), which would lead me to conclude that they're just not worth joining if you have hopes of greek life for yourself.

Soror AKAtude, I agree with you on "when did this turn into a sexual orientation" discussion". However, it came about because Delta Phi Upsilon is an African American gay men's fraternity and the close similarities between our organizations' symbols.

Unfortunately, we still live in a Judeo-Christian, and even very Islamic, who have very strict morals, society. A problem develops when another incorporated organization uses symbols similar to that of a highly visible, traditional and historical sorority such as Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated, people who are unfamiliar with my Sorority, will be confused as to what both of our organizations promote.

My Sorority already has issues with outsiders confusing the purposes of the other 3 fellow sororities. Is Delta Phi Upsilon asking my Sorority to simply accept your decision to be obstenate toward us simply because African Americans need to embrace our gays and lesbians fight for African American's civil rights? Is Delta Phi Upsilon believe that my general membership sorors and my International officers will not fight, yes fight to maintain the perpetuity and continuity of our highly blessed Sorority? Not to scare Delta Phi Upsilon from meeting the needs of their members, the fact is that my Sorority hold our symbols sacred. And no one can simply ask my Sorors, some who are Diamond sorors not to be angered and won't take the DPU to task. It is just a fact. It is unfortunate, but it is still just a fact.

I understand that everybody gotta do they own thang. Whateva's cleva. In fact my cousin is a lesbian and was out when people in her small southern Black community thought we don't have those "caucasian" sexual orientation issues. I mean no offense, but in the Black community, some people do think that sexual orientation is not OUR issue.

I know what my sexual orientation is and am proud of it. I enjoy being with men, making love to a man and eventually develop a maritial relationship with a man. And heterosexuals should not be condemned for their choices either! I understand that the Black gay and lesbian community needs outreach in such a way my Sorority cannot provide nor accept. But, the Black gay and lesbian community needs to understand that in its entirety, Afrikans in amerikkklan have too many problems already and this infighting about symbol usage is bullshit given the current status of our plights.

Moreover, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated has trademarked two items. The term, "Fashionetta" and our sacred pin. Delta Phi Upsilon can be taken to court for trademark enfringement. So basically, the organization would want to be justifying, yes, I said it, justifying its use of its symbols because you SKATING on very thin ice. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif

Yes, I said it, you all are a bunch of skaters bitchin' and moaning about how upset my Sorors are!!! Because when my Sorors have pledged their hearts and minds to Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. it's too hard to ice SKATE, like Brian Boitano (sp)...

It doesn't matter what I think, many people on this board are stating your symbols are too similar to Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc's symbols. You have to think of why GC members would say that. No, we do not have juristidiction over symbols or colors, but it is out of mutual respect for each other that NPHC BGLO's are angry. It is not because your gay, but because DPU has earmarked their organization's symbols that define what they are all about without orginality, much less considering what your community would think is symbolic... Because my Sorority, over 90 years ago, chose our symbols based on what we thought reflected the Black community at that time. And I can tell you that all the other NPHC BGLO's did the same.

How is an ivy symbolic with the Black gay/lesbian community?

How is an sheild with a dove, globe, clasped hands, book, torch symbolic of the Black gay/lesbian community?

How is a motto, "Service to OUR Kind", reflective about your community?

I really want to know... It is because you do not respect our heritage that you are angry--not the fact that you think you are meeting the needs of the gay and lesbian community... Because if you were meeting the needs of the gay and lesbian community, you would not be here posting messages about how no one has complete juristidiction over all the symbols of the world. Moreover, you skaters are really not helping so what if Alpha Phi Sorority, Inc. has a similar magazine name as Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. There is a reason for that you know. But you will never be privy to that information because you do not respect our hard work and dedication to Service, without bias, To ALL Mankind...

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited March 30, 2001).]

Preach, Soror AKA_Monet, preach!!!!! Amen!!!
I think someone made my soror mad.

Naw, soror, I don't hate...

Because if one hated, it means that they ain't getting any and if they are, it ain't good... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

Because if they were gettin' some and it was good, there would be no reason to hate... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

And the fact that I'm getting some and it is really good http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

Every day and night, twice on Sunday...



[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited March 30, 2001).]

Whoa, soror! TMI!!!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif



[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited March 30, 2001).]

Soror AKA_Monet:

I agree with some of what you said, but I have to disagree that some sorors have beef with our sorority being affiliated with a gay men's fraternity. I have problems with Alpha Kappa Alpha being associated with ANY entity, through the duplication of our symbols, rituals and traditions. I'm not upset because these brothers are gay; I'm upset with ANYONE who would knowingly appropriate our symbols. And that was my understanding of the fraternity in question, because of the email message I addressed in a previous post.

The fact that we live in a Judeo-Christian society hasn't stopped some of the many changes we've seen in our sorority and black greekdom, so to me, we shouldn't try to be all high, mighty and righteous about the homosexuality aspect of this debate. Rather, we should stick to the real issue of respect: for others' hard work and the deep meaning they assign to the symbols and traditions which define their sorority/fraternity experience.

Whatever happened to the RAINBOW? That would seem more logical to use, wouldn't it?
http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

DeltaBro1-You stated in your letter that you wonder if we (the members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated) would have a problem if you were an organization of white men. Hell yes, we would! I personally don’t care that your organization is comprised of African-American men. You all could be black, white, blue, green, male, female, gay, lesbian, animal or mineral-it would not matter to me. What matters to me is that your organization has regrettably chosen symbols long used by my beloved organization which are very dear to me and my sorors. I agree with my Soror Ideal08, let’s just keep it real. There are just too many similarities between the symbols that your organization chose in 1985 and the ones that my organization has held dear since the early 1900s. This is no coincidence. Could you all not come up with one original idea-other than being for the benefit of gay African-American men. I looked at your shield and I was horrified. It appears that you all have basically copied every identifying symbol regarding your organization from other organizations, mainly Alpha Kappa Alpha. You stated in your letter that you are appalled by the alleged KOSIS, Inc.’s blatant disrespect for Alpha Kappa Alpha and her traditions. Well, I am appalled by your organization’s blatant disrespect for my beloved sorority. You stated further in your letter that the sole purpose of emails from my sorors is to take your organization to task for its very existence. I have no problem whatsoever with the existence of your organization. I do, however, have a problem with your blatant disrespect for my organization which has been exhibited by your organization’s pilfering of the symbols of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated. My heart is loyal and my heart is true to Alpha Kappa Alpha which is why I find your use of so many of our symbols to be very disrespectful and for that I most certainly will “take you to task”.

Yes, the topic at hand is another organization incorporating our symbols sincere and rare. Yes, you are correct and I agree with you.

But are you really going to believe that every one of our Sorors are that open minded as you are?

Yes, changes have been made in a society that has historically oppessed the liberation of Afrikan minds.

But do you really believe that we are finished in this fight against oppression and this fight for our sovereign human rights? Of course not. As far as being me being pious, I stand for some basic truths that I hold self-evident, that all men are created equal that they should pursue life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness. Whereas, most folks pursue life and happiness but do not understand what liberation means. Then again, are we truly free?

The fact is, the topic at hand is really these little brothers and sisters groups that we have which I understand is traditional at numerous colleges and maybe some graduate chapters. I have somewhat of an issue with utilization of our symbols in that aspect. But that is just me.

What I do not understand from you is why would you think I want to be "high and mighty" when we are the ones who are to be the leaders in the up and coming society? Who shall LEAD???