Has anyone tried to look at this from the police officers perspective? YES maybe it should not have taken 6 of them to detain him...but he was coming at them, swinging at them, saying racial slurs, would not stay down, was grabbing the night stick etc.. Were they supposed to let the suspect beat them up?? I'm sorry if you swing on a police officer...you got whats coming to you...black, white, red, whatever. Yea the guy shouldn't have died...but he should ahve thought about his health before he decided to take a swing at a cop, take drugs with an enlarged heart and indulge in Burgers from White Castle at 350+pounds.

What would you have done in the situation if a suspect would not stay down and was coming at you? The officers DID pepper spray him...they continuously said "put your hands behind your back"Why do we always jump to the defense of someone who's in the wrong in the first place??

I just don't get it :confused: :mad:

This Just In . . .
 

Coroner: Ohio Man's Death Is a Homicide
5 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!



CINCINNATI - A struggle with police was the primary cause of a 350-pound black man's death, the coroner said Wednesday.


Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.


Parrott said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a ruling "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police."

Tony BO6,

i've lived in Madisonville, Silverton, Forest Park, Woodlawn, and Springdale, twice. i thank you for your support if i move intown and run:D
Ladygreek, it's people like that that don't help solve the very real problem of police brutality.
i do believe that Mr. Jones was in the wrong AND the CPD were in the wrong as well. Tasers? Stun guns? perhaps they should've been used and could've helped in that situation. i'm not a police officer but i've read they are used by other police departments.
i'm looking at this from a "numbers" perspective. i would like to know how many unarmed belligerent/drunken/high white males have died while in police custody in this city (i pay attention to the news and i believe it's a low number). in this city, far too many unarmed Black males have suffered Death By Police. unless i see unbiased stats that show a similar number of dead white men as Black men due to the same circumstances, i will not bend on this.
a question: why do people always feel that the police are right each and every time and w/every situation? i read enough newspapers and watch enough news stories to know that's not true.

an aside: i'm not anti-police. i am pro- good police. i had a great experience riding w/a Cinti Police officer for a day and would do it again in a heartbeat.

...I guess I'm most puzzled that this has never happened to a white man at the hands of the Cincy PD. strange, ain't it?

Do the reports now say it was only a minute amount? Because what I read today, his behavior from passing out to dancing, singing, and jogging around the restaurant and the parking lot doesn't indicate a sick man, but an intoxicated man. Sounds like more than a minute amount. :confused:

Personally, I don't always believe that the police are right each and every time with every situation, just as I don't believe that Black folx are merely victims of racial profiling each and every time with every situation.

I never denied that racial profiling was a problem. I just don't think that black people are right all the time when it comes to stuff like this, just like the police aren't always right-like ladygreek said above.

I stand corrected. I heard there were small amounts when the incident first took place but the coroner's report proves that wrong. :( Aaw, now I'm really sad because even though he had no business being high like that, he probably didn't know what was happening to him when the police tried to arrest him before beating him up.

I haven't seen this tape, nor do I have any desire to see it. But, from the information that I have read and seen on the news, I have formulated my own opinion on the matter. They were both wrong: the police and the deceased.

I have looked at things from the police officers point of view. If a man is resisting arrest, I understand the officers' desire to use force to subdue him. But, I do think that police departments need to thoroughly train officers in ways to subdue a suspect while using the least amount of force possible. Too many officers pull the pistol or night stick and ask questions later. We need more thinkers on the police force and less reactors.

Next, this man should have just laid down on the ground and not resisted. I don't know if his reasons for fighting back were chemically related or just based on frustration. Either way, it would have been best for him to just lay down. But, I have to reject the argument that since black men know that the police are prone to brutality, they should just accept whatever the cops are dishing out. Just because they do it doesn't make it right.

Just like on GC, opinion varies...
 

Talk radio's response predictable
------------------------------------------
Cincinnati Post staff report
12-5-03

While the Nathaniel Jones confrontation video makes the rounds on national TV, Cincinnati talk radio has responded to the controversial death in a predictable, almost deja vu way, not adding much to the debate. But it sure does make some noise.

"Every black man in Cincinnati should feel those blows. Every black man in America should feel them," said a caller Thursday to WDBZ-AM (1230), the station aimed at the African-American community.

It's very different over at WLW, where Bill Cunningham reigns as the conservative afternoon talk host. "I see a miscreant, a fellow high on PCP and embalming fluid turning into a violent offender beating on police," said Cunningham.

The local talk radio world is indeed a tale of two cities even though we all live in the same one. "Just as the city is divided by race, the talk stations are divided by race," said Lincoln Ware, operations manager and 10 a.m.-1 p.m. host at "The Buzz."

"About 75 percent of our callers are pro-police," said Mike McConnell, WLW's 9 a.m. -- noon host. Ware agreed that about the same number of his callers are opposed to the way the police reacted in the Jones case.

It is the nature of talk radio to polarize. And when stories with racial overtones become news, you can expect the area's two main talk outlets -- WLW and WDBZ _ -- will fall into the party line.

It's not even the talk hosts that encourage the hyper-rhetoric. Callers of a particular political persuasion know where to turn and where to sound off in support of their views.

Both McConnell and Ware agree the Jones video immediately became a sort of Rorschach test for both sides of the issue with talk radio tracking the results. "We've basically had people calling who look at the video and see two completely different things," said McConnell. "A good percentage of the audience sees those who are anti-cop as pig-headed. Those who are backing Jones or think it's brutality see everybody else as some sort of Nazis. Those are the two divisions and there's no one who falls in the middle."

Of course, there are those in the middle. They just don't call talk radio. People who see gray areas or are undecided soak it all in before they make a decision. But that kind of thinking is usually not what talk radio is about.

For example, Ware, who may be a more conservative talk host on a station where most black callers are definitely riled up about the current issue, often tries to get callers to see the gray areas. "Is it racism or just a failure for these cops to be able to communicate with black people?" he asked one caller this week. It was a searching question that asked volumes, trying to get people to make intellectual distinctions and in turn ask more questions.

Ware said he is a fence sitter on the Jones case, constantly telling his audience to wait for the facts to come in, but he acknowledges it's not popular to come off as "pro-police" on The Buzz.

"I try to put out a true fact and it looks like I'm siding with police and many of my callers don't like that," Ware said. "It's frustrating because some people just don't want to hear the true facts."

Still Ware, with a 25-plus year career on Cincinnati radio, remains sensitive to the black community, understanding sometimes there is just a need to sound off. "They really need to vent. It may have been something that happened to them in the past dealing with the police and this just brings it out. Here's their chance to get back. They want to call a radio station and say, 'Here's what they did to me, and they are wrong on this one, too.'"

In some ways, the national coverage of the issue has probably not helped the local debate. The video showing police officers repeatedly striking Jones with their nightsticks has literally been everywhere from Court TV to the cable news channels.

Local TV stations could be said to be showing more restraint and responsibility with the use of the video and editing than the national media. For example, one quick CNN edit showed police beating Jones but did not include his aggressiveness at police.

There is no secret as to why the national networks have jumped on the story.
"There's a video, and it is Rodney King-reminiscent," said McConnell. "You have white cops wailing on a black guy. It plays so well to that, and it's such higher quality, and you have multiple angles to the tape. It's almost inexhaustible for the networks to play."

"With the competition for viewers on the cable news channels being so keen, as distasteful as this sounds, it makes for good video, for good television," said Darryl Parks, WLW program director. "That's why it's being shown over and over and over again.

Parks said that ever since the April 2001 riots following the shooting death of 19-year-old Timothy Thomas by a Cincinnati police officer, the station has made sure black community voices have been heard when such stories break to counter the predictable conservative positions of McConnell and Cunningham.

"We do make a concerted effort to have African-American community voices," Parks said. "We want to make sure we are more broad-based."

Parks said, for example, in the past week the station has featured extensive talk interviews with such black leaders as Human Relations Commission head Cecil Thomas, Rev. Jesse Lee Petersen, and attorney Ken Lawson, who is representing Jones' family. Meanwhile, the network TV talk shows have been acting like the local radio talk wars, making stars of the local radio media and often featuring the polarized viewpoints.

Ware appeared on Bill O'Reilly's Fox News show Thursday night. Cunningham has been on Fox's "Hannity and Colmes" twice this week, including a debate on Hannity's national radio show with activist Nate Livingston on Wednesday.

Parks said the station has had calls from CNN and MSNBC also looking for talk radio hosts to appear on upcoming segments.
---------------
Interesting to see how the GC community may or may not mirror this. I think most posters are Af-Am, but culturally, and to some degree politically, we're all over the board.

Growing up in Cincinnati, Lincoln Ware has been a solid guy for a long time, and I'm glad to see him trying to bring some clarity to this situation.

Cincinnati Mayor Recommends Stun Guns
1 hour, 22 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


By TERRY KINNEY

CINCINNATI - Cincinnati's mayor on Sunday urged the city to buy stun guns for its police force in response to the death of a man following a struggle with six officers a week ago.


AP Photo


Reuters
Slideshow: Police Probed In Death of 350-Pound Man

FOP President: Officers Justified in Beating
(AP Video)



"I am looking for any avenue to avoid another struggle," Mayor Charlie Luken wrote in an e-mail to City Council members Sunday that asked them to find $1 million in the 2004 budget to pay for the non-lethal weapons.


"While it is unclear whether the incident would have changed if our officers had the latest technology in Tasers, I believe we must equip our police with the very best equipment," Luken wrote.


Nathaniel Jones, 41, died Nov. 30 after the scuffle in a restaurant parking lot. A police cruiser videotape showed the 350-pound man lunging at one officer before he was brought down and struck repeatedly with metal nightsticks.


The coroner ruled Jones' death a homicide but cautioned that the designation did not imply police used excessive force. The direct cause of death was the struggle, the autopsy showed, but Jones also had an enlarged heart and had drugs in his blood.


Jones' family and activist groups have said they will commission independent investigations, adding to probes by police, prosecutors and a citizens' panel. The Justice Department (news - web sites) also is gathering information.


About 500 people attended a memorial Saturday for Jones, who was black. His death has focused attention on the racial divide in this city torn by riots in April 2001 after a white police officer shot an unarmed black man who fled arrest.


A new model of the Taser was demonstrated to city officials about five months ago, Luken said at City Hall on Sunday.


"We have been waiting on a federal grant," Luken said. "Because of what happened a week ago, the city manager and I have concluded that we cannot wait."


Police Chief Thomas Streicher told council members on Wednesday that he stopped use of the older Tasers because he considered them unreliable. They required an officer to touch a person to activate the stun capability — not practical in a case where the suspect is lunging and swinging at officers, he said.


The newer models fire small, needlelike projectiles that can shock a person who is up to 25 feet away, Luken said.


The mayor said enough money to buy 1,000 of the new stun guns for the 1,050-officer department could come from not filling 34 middle management city vacancies that he expects within the coming year.

a shame!!
 

for my gc'ers who live in the cincy area, i pray that your city gets through this!!


i have seen the video on my local news and this issue has me a bit torn. although it was a horrible thing to see this man being beaten, i am feeling in some ways that he did it to himself. according to what i have heard and read, he was intoxicated/high. in addition he was a large man. most people with sound judgement know that when you are stopped a cop, you do not resist! yes sir and no sir should be the only things you say unless you are asked a question by the officer.

from what i saw of the tape, at one point, he looked as of he was attacking one of the cops. why? why would you knowingly put yourself in more harms way unless your faculties were impaired?

this undoubtedly will cause additional tension in this city and the race card will be used. but i am afraid that in this instance this poor man has no one else to blame but himself :( .

so senseless!

yup.....
 

this is why, this situation is so troubling! i wonder will anyone really know what happened in those first few seconds? unfortunately based on what i have seen and read, i am not sure if i agree that the cops were fully out of line :( .

I am in agreeance with ClassyLady. Like I've mentioned before, I want to join the police force, and things like this are things that I think about all the time. Just because someone swings on me does not mean I should beat them down with my nightstick, especially when I have 5 0r 6 other officers to help me. Even if he had to use it, he didn't have to continue to beat him down after he was on the ground, which is what I got from the video. Police officers know the potential situations thay may get into, and they are paid to deal with things like this. Even now, when I have to restain my residents, I try to make sure I do not hurt them.

I actually think that stun guns/tasers are a good idea, as long as they used properly. If the police officers do not get giddy and stun a man to death, then it will avoid a lot of physical confrontations. I hope they get it together, because I thinking about going back to Cinci...

Officers Cleared In Death of Black Man
Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2004
By: Associated Press

The Cincinnati police officers involved in the deadly struggle with Nathaniel Jones will not face any criminal charges, Hamilton County Prosecutor Mike Allen announced Monday.

Jones, 41, died after the confrontation with six officers in the parking lot of a White Castle restaurant in Avondale in November. The officers needed three sets of handcuffs to subdue Jones, whose behavior inside the restaurant prompted a call to police about his disorderly conduct.

Much of the struggle was caught on a police cruiser camera, and the video's contents prompted outrage on both sides of the community once it was released publicly.

"The only crimes committed were committed by Nathaniel Jones," Allen said at a press conference Monday evening. "My office finds that no crimes were committed by any police officers. It is my decision that this case is now closed and will not be presented to a grand jury."

Read the rest here