Re: Re: :( I feel uncomfortable
 

Actually I think you need to examine your knowledge of history.... the Battle of Britain was over and the Allies were bombing the Germans too, and more importantly the Battle of Stalingrad was ending. The USSR was the deciding factor for the defeat of Germany.... by the time the US had entered the war the German's were already on the defensive in the east.

As for Japan, following the bombing of Pearl Harbour, Canada, the UK, and Australia declared war on Japan before the US did.

Hmmmm..... I wonder why an oil exporting nation like Iran would be so aggressively developing a nuclear power program? What could it that reason be? I just don't know. ;)

Re: Re: Re: :( I feel uncomfortable
 

The USSR was not the sole deciding factor for the defeat of Germany but it was a combination of things including the U.S. entering the war.

France and Britian had been rocked by the Germans and although the "Battle of Britian" had "ended" (which from what I understand was still being bombed heavily by the Germans, but maybe I'm wrong), it didn't mean that the British were on an "instant offensive."

As you probably noticed I said the Germans were threatening to occupy the former Soviet Union, even if the battle of Stalingrad was "ending" it wasn't "over." BUt I will agree that it did put the Germans on the defensive but I dont' agree that the Germans were on a "great defensive" prior to that.

And it must have been one hell of a defensive considering the amount of detail and support needed for the D-Day invasion.

Guys, please no personal attacks.

Actually, nuclear power is a very clean (aside from the fact that chenobryl part II could happen) sustainable energy. i know another country that is an oil exporting country that is also looking into nuclear power program, that is Indonesia. And no, no weapons will be made from that program because they are outsourcing the development. Two countries are in the front of the bidding process, South Africa and Australia.

That is true, but remember an important reason why Chernobyl happened; that nuclear power plant had inadequate oversight, something typical in command-and-control societies. Also, such authoritarian nations are typically the worst when it comes to environmental issues.

I have far greater faith in Indonesia, than I do in Iran when it comes to the actual pursuit of a clean environment, as well as the operation of a legitimate nuclear power program with adequate oversight.

Does anyone really believe that if a 3 Mile Island type incident were to occur in Iran, and if the Iranian government were able to suppress that news, that we would ever know about it? I really don't believe so. Let's not forget that some of the most powerful Ayatollahs (not of rock and rolla) in Iran have explicitly stated, repeatedly, that if Iran were to obtain a nuclear weapon, it would be bound for Israel. And Israel would absolutely retaliate with their nuclear weapons.

Agreed. This is the wrong place for that. If you want to confront each other like above, take it to PM.

Another point regarding the WWII debate, while the US did wait a number of years to declare war, it was (probably illegally) supporting Great Britain and Russia with considerable money and material.

If historic references are correct, neither would probably have survived without that aid -- which included combat aircraft, warships and transportation ships, trucks, jeeps and aircraft.

Thus the term "Arsenal of Democracy."

I love revisionist history. Someday it will be taught that the United States was not a major factor in defeating the Axis powers or in rebuilding most of Europe and Japan. Wait, that day is here.

Back to the war in Iraq...

Don't forget that the reason that the French and British people were so appreciative of Americans right after WWII, is because the U.S. had an insignificant role in that war.;)

I actually agree with a post by bethany, lol.

I'm also co-signing what DA said about giving quite a bit of money and aid to countries involved in the war without actually declaring war, I think they call it a "morale ally"?

We must both be struck with a bug. I found myself agreeing with some of your posts the other day on a different thread. It's the end of the world! Let's both run for Congress... lol! We'll bring the good ole boys club together... maybe not.

Look I just wanted to point out that the US significance in WW2 (and most definately in WW1) wasn't the be all and end all that most Americans beleive it to be (by this I mean the average person on the street). It is a nationalistic myth that has been influenced mostly by film and TV (think of a big US produced movie or show that showed people other than the US fighting). Canada has the same nationalistic myths too; such as the militia fighting of the US invasion in 1812 (they supported the Brits, the militia sigificance has been over-inflated), and most media productions reflect this.

Yes the US had a very significant role in WW2, but so did a number of countries. Prior to it's entry into the war the US made significant contributions in material to the UK and USSR, but so did most of the other Allies. As for the Brits and the French being thankful; of course they were, their industries had been severely damaged, their manpower greatly reduced, and their economies in the hole from the war effort..... the Marshal Plan was what helped put Europe back on it's feet, and I'd feel pretty damn appreciative of that aid.

So to sum up the US was a significant combatant in WW2, but not the primary one (except for the Pacific theatre).

OKAY! FIRST...moe.ron, I know that you tend to be an instigator, and you have succeeded. While I care little for your opinions on why the war is happening, I would like to thank you for not coming right out and calling my husband a Bush-worshipping-baby-killer.

As someone who has seen Iraqi people FIRST-HAND, his enthusiasm and belief in what he is doing in Baghdad grows everyday. However, you won't see that on television or read it in your newspaper. Father's come into the streets and beg the soldiers to marry their daughters to get them away from a life of degradation, abuse, and nothingness! (This was the same in Afghanistan while my nephew was there.) Men volunteer to join the US Army, women bring meals, and children ask to do the soldier's laundry. But, maybe you're right...perhaps they were content in their lifestyle!

I have enjoyed reading this thread mostly because of the historical value. I enjoy history, however, war involved history tends to bore me. So, thank you for the education.

To others, and you know who you are, you're support for our soldiers AND what they are doing is greatly appreciated!

aj

If you think that moe.ron is instigating something I think you are taking his posts the wrong way, but then again maybe not.

Second, simply because someone chooses to oppose the war in Iraq doesn't mean that they don't support/worry about the men and women that are over there. I assure you that most and I would hope all Americans would support the troops no matter how they feel about the war.

I understand your husband is over there and I also have friends that have recently returned while others are leaving. Some of these friends did not have enthusiam that grew daily, in fact some of them thought that they were getting no where at times and felt almost helpless while other American soliders as well as Iraqi citizens were being attacked. Another one of my friends was glad to return because he couldn't handle being over there any longer, his enthusiam wore thin.

I guess it just really depends on the soldier but I heard there was an increase in soldiers in Iraq killing themselves and I'm going to try to look for an article about it.

I would like to ask where where I even applied that your husband is a baby killer. I opposed the war because of the internationl implication of the future. Unlike most people that opposed the war, humanitarian reason was not on top of my list. I understand war is needed. In fact, it is an extension of internationl relation (war in term of international war, not civil war, though one can also debate that civil war is an extension of local politics.) I fear that this war has open the pandora box on reasons for war. I hope to God I'm wrong.