Well put, DeltAlumn. I couldn't have said it better myself!!

I don't know, DeltAlum - I still think there's a need for discussion of how you think and hope your future together will shape up. Yes, you will change as the years progress, and you have no way of knowing now what sort of person you'll be in 5 or 10 years, or what sort of person your spouse will be. But if you can't even agree right now on, say, whether or not you want children, then maybe getting married isn't such a hot idea.

I agree, though, that you should both be committed to "'til death do us part" and work through minor problems rather than throwing up your hands and getting a divorce when the going gets rough. Major problems, such as abuse, are of course another matter.

Oh, I agree. I didnt' want my comments to be longer than they alredy were.

Of course some or all of the other things listed can be helpful -- but without the commitment I talked about they aren't enough.

Obviously, you can't go into a marriage with no preparation or understanding each other or things in common. It's just that those things alone often aren't enough.

At least I don't think they are.

I am not married yet but this is my plan:

1. Get a real job that has career potential and work at that job/career for at least 2 years prior to the engagement.

2. Get a house of my own (not just an apartment) and live there for at least a year prior to the engagement.

3. Be financially sound, which includes sound savings and checking accounts, a sound credit line on my major credit card, etc., before an engagement

4. When engaged and during the first few months of marriage, I plan on going to marital counseling with a church and through a marriage counselor.

5. Have my own insurance plans (i.e. health, car, and homeowner's).

6. I won't put his name on my car, checking and savings accounts, house, or credit card. We will each sell our own homes and go in together equally on a house. My parents bought me a brand new car for college graduation and I earned that car, not him.

7. Set up a joint checking account for bills and a joint savings account for our possible future children's bills and college tuition. We will each have our own seperate checking and savings accounts and credit cards in case something like divorce happens.

8. Get tested for any STDs on both sides, even if I do know my own status. It's only fair if I want him to do it.

9. Meet the family even if you've seen the movie Meet the Parents and Father of the Bride!

OK think that's it. hehehe.

Sounds like you'll have a financially successful marriage. Which isn't a bad thing if you can really achieve it.

We, for instance, decided not to have children until we could afford to live comfortably on one salary since Mrs. DeltAlum wanted to stay at home with the kids.

After seven years, it occurred to us that it might never happen, so we had our first which effectively halved our total income. It wasn't easy, but it worked out and we are happy, in retrospect, that the kids had mom around. (Please don't turn this into a debate on staying home vs. career, it is used here only as an example -- not a lifestyle suggestion)

Another way of saying what I've said in my past couple of posts is that marriage is not done in a clinical setting. Like in much of life and business, all of the things you learn and read about and take to heart go straight out the window in the light of day to day living.

Without the commitment to each other and the marriage, those can turn out to be really hollow sounding things a few years down the line.

I think people are incorrectly inferring causation from correlation here.

I think the reason for this statistic is that people who live together before marriage tend to have more liberal views towards marriage, thus they are more likely to leave a marriage that isn't working out. People with more conservative views towards marriage are less likely to live together before marriage and more likely to stay in an unhappy marriage, trying to make it work.

I don't think that the idea that living together before marriage causes divorce is true at all.

There's all sorts of wonderful research (yes, we all know research can be biased, but this group found information from all sides of the issue) on www.unmarried.org. It's great how they blew that myth out of the water. :)

Agreed... the hard part is, BOTH of you have to share that committment. When only one is making the marriage a priority, then it gets pretty hopeless!

I have been thinking about this topic a lot and I don't think there is any one thing you can do before marriage to make sure that it is successful. There are a lot of things you should do to make sure that you are ready to make the committment. There is a lot of soul searching you should do to decide whether this is someone you CAN spend the rest of your life with... on an intellectual level, aside from the giddy "in love" feelings. But, who can explain why some couples who get married after knowing each other for 3 weeks have a marriage that lasts forever and others who have known each other 2 or 3 years don't. It does boil down to how committed each party is, but you can't know how committed your partner will stay over time. You can only control what you do.

By the way, divorce isn't the only reason that a woman should make sure that she can make it on her own. Injuries, illnesses or even death can happen to anybody. Everybody should feel comfortable living on their own, managing their money and have knowledge of what it takes.

Dee

Another thing - before you get married you and your spouse should make living wills, like legitimate signed by a pastor and witness living wills. Both of y'all need to know exactly what the other wants in case *God forbid* the unthinkable happened. If something happens to your spouse, the breadwinner, you need to be able to support yourself and/or children you have.

Yes I agree here, and to reiterate what someone else said abotu credit.......it's very important for both sides to have good credit going in. Because for example if the Guy has bad credit and gets married, then that bad credit will then become her bad credit (if everything is jointly done) regardless of her credit status before hand.

Go in knowing that no matter how good the relationship, and what you have been through together, the first year will try everything you ever thought about. The first year of marriage is not the romantic image that the movies make it out to be. Even if you lived like you were married before (except for the possible name change and piece of paper) things change. Be prepared for it. The best peice of advice I have ever been given is that "the first year is always the hardest". So far the giver was right and 6 years later I still give that advice to anyone who asks.

You can always keep your credit histories separate, even after you marry. If I get married, I'm going to keep my credit record separate from Mr. Munch's. Not because our respective records are bad, but just because I want to have my own credit. The fact that I'm keeping my last name should make that easier. :)

What about social class? I can't marry anyone that can't give me a herd of cattle for a dowry.

-Rudey
--No joke and I don't mean thin dying Ethiopian kinda cattle. OK. Cool.

Wow, AGDee, I'm sorry...that must've been a huge shocker. Personally, that's the reason I'm not engaged/married to my ex right now...sometimes people really do say things to make you stay with them even though they have no intention of following through. I'm just glad I figured it out before I gave up everything I had and moved out of the country with him...

I definitely agree that people should live on their own and have a good idea of their likes/dislikes/preferences/beliefs/who they are as a person. I also agree in talking about the future, money, children, etc...

For sure I am on the same page as Delt Alum though - he had better understand what kind of a commitment marriage is when he marries me (whoever he may be). Divorce will not be an option.

I met a women once on the day of her 50th wedding anniversary and everyone was asking her how they made it work and how they stayed in love the whole time. She said something like "Are you kidding? We weren't in love the whole time. We went days, weeks, even months and years not being "in love" sometimes... but we did always love each other. We stuck through the bad times and the good times would always come back." I loved that... just the idea that it's not always candlelight and roses and romance -sometimes there are hard times, but that person is always your best friend and you never leave them and eventually you have that romance again.