[QUOTE]Originally posted by AOIIalum



I do not know if you can take any comfort in this, but this ongoing thread has caused me to do a little research about your sisterhood. I like what I found, and congratulate your founders for realizing that there was a need for an organized social outlet celebrating and promoting what they loved, their common bonds in music. I've learned that membership in SAI is restricted, to those with some kind of connection to music and possibly the arts (unsure on that so far) and membership in a social sorority is allowed.



I'm glad you explored our sisterhood. :) SAI is restricted to musicians (vocal, instrumental...anything musical), but NOT just to music majors. I'm also glad that you liked what you found. In case you didn't know, SAI's symbol also is the red rose, and red and white are our colors as well. :D




Not all GLOs rituals have changed through the years, because not all GLOs have had to change. Some of the sororities and fraternities were blessed with forward-thinking founders who somehow had the knowledge and insight to create rituals that would stand the test of time through the decades.

That is why I said *almost* all. I know that not ALL did. :)

While I was in Women's Glee at Ole Miss, the ladies of SAI asked me to join. However, due to my school work and being a member of a GLO I didn't think I would have time. SAI at my school is all vocal majors and singers in glee and concert singers. TBS is for women in band. SAI at Ole Miss does not ask women outside of music to be involved with them. Just a thought.

Well, first of all, SAI as a whole is open to ALL musicians, although at some schools, it will tend to learn towards all vocalists or all instrumentalists. OUrs is mixed. TBS *is* only for band however.

When you say SAI there does not ask women outside of music to be involved with them, do you mean to pledge, or just to be involved with them? I mean you have to be a musician of SOME sort to pledge...because if you aren't a musician, why would you want to pledge SAI, a group whose sisterhood is tied to music?

Because SAI is not a social Greek/member of NPC, we do not do things like mixers, etc with other Greeks, except for other music Greeks like Sinfonians or TBS. I mean, there wouldn't be much point...most of the social Greeks on my campus look down at us and don't see us as Greek in the first place *sigh* and besides that, while I will argue all day and all night that we are JUST AS GREEK as an NPC sorority, we still have very different aims. Like NPC groups, we hold our ritual close to our hearts, and our sisterhood is strong and lifelong. However...music is our focus. We have nothing against the social Greeks; they serve their own purpose, and do a lot for the community and campus. We respect them. But we don't interact with other Greeks because, well, they wouldn't want us to, and I'm not sure it'd serve a purpose.

Does any of this make any sense?

Reading all this kind of hits home because I'm sure some of my long-ago sisters were in the same position. We were social-educational and I'm sure there were women who belonged to, for example, ASA and KKG and didn't want to place one above the other.

I meant that SAI is not going to ask someone who does not sing or play an instrument or who is creative in the arts or music to pledge SAI. I didn't mean it in a negative way. That is just how the ladies of SAI at Ole Miss are. They are nice and everything a lady should be.

Actually, having read AOIIs first ritual book (hand written by our founders), AOII's ritual has not changed since 1897 with the exception of a few words - seriously! I also would like to say that our founders were the ones that instituted the badge policy that you don't agree with. It is not to offend any other organization (as two of our founders were also in Phi Beta Kappa) but for the same reason our badge is so simple - AOII's importance is in her simplicity.

Here's a thought to chew on. . . what would you do if you were a member of two orgs that required you to wear each badge higher than any other? Basically you will still need to choose which badge was more important to be worn in the situation and not wear the other at all. That's not saying that one is more important, just that you would not technically be able to wear both at the same time. Or the point that Sistermadly states about which one you would wear closest to your heart for that matter. . .

I hope I don't come off as too curt, basically I'm saying that the member would need to decide which badge she would like to wear in whatever situation she was in. . .

Sarah

First, thanks Christin for at least acting like I'm not boring you. ;)

Second, without a doubt, many Sinfonian chapters stick close to the schools/departments of music. While we have no national (we're not international) policy requiring that our members be music majors/minors or even take music classes -- just that they love music and believe in its power -- there is no question that strong bonds usually exist between chapter and school/department. In many ways, this dates back to our "officially professional" days -- old habits sometimes die hard. It also probably has something to do with the nature of music schools/departments in many places -- sort of world unto themselves in many respects.

Other chapters are not so, shall we say, insular. I know of chapters where the majority of members are not music majors/minors.

Third, presently our national policy does allow dual membership in Sinfonia and another social fraternal. I know that at one point last year, our national HQ was trying to get data on how many collegiate brothers were members of another social GLO, but I don't know what they found out. I imagine that there may be a move to change this, and they were trying to find out how common it currently is. Certainly it will have to change if Sinfonia seeks membership in the NIC, which I keep hearing may be pursued.

Chapter policies may be more restrictive -- certainly they are for chapters that are in their campus's IFCs. My impression (no hard data on this), is that "dual membership" tends to be more common in chapters like you described -- those that stick close to the music school/department and act more "professional." In other chapters it is not, perhaps, as common. In most chapters I'm familiar with it would definately be frowned upon, because the brothers (1) would expect your primary loyalty to be to Sinfonia, and (2) would fear that your involvement in another GLO would compete with your involvement in Sinfonia. Just my take on it though.

Like I've said before, we're still trying to shift our understanding of our brotherhood back to what was intended by our founders, and away from the "professional" model we bore midway through our existence. It's taking time, but we're getting there!

off on a tangent...
 

[hijack]

This is a question for members of PMASinfonia & SAI who might know....have you found that your membership overall (in existing chapters and new chapters) has gone up since TBS and KKPsi went coed?

[/hijack]

I must correct you on one point. I am a member of two academic honorary GLOs and, contrary to your statement above, we do have initiation rituals. As a matter of fact, of these two organizations, one used to be a social fraternity and the other a social sorority before they decided to become academic honoraries. So, in fact, they both have full-blown ritual.

For what it's worth, having read the constitution of both orgs, the only guideline regarding the pins and keys is that they are to be worn only by members. There is no regulation regarding placement with other GLO badges.


.....Kelly :)

Thanks for correcting me there, Kelly. I didn't know that honoraries had ritual! That's cool! :) Do they have pledging too, or just an initiation ritual? Either way, I was just misinformed...people told me that honoraries are just honor societies and did not have any ritual. Anyways...thanks again for clearing that up! :)

Re: off on a tangent...
 

Hmmm...I don't know. On *my* campus, TBS actually is considerably larger than SAI. As a whole though, I'm not sure. Any TBS/KKY folks, how many active college chapters do you have? We have 195(I believe).

The chapter of TBS on my campus is quite strong. They have a strong brother/sisterhood, they do a lot for the band, etc etc. Personally, *I* would not want to be in a coed GLO. I like being in an all-female GLO where we have women supporting each other in our musical endeavors and also in our personal lives. I mean, I say if *you* want to be in a co-ed GLO, that's great, but I personally would not want to. But that's just me. :)

Ah, well. I might as well beat my dead horse here, too.

Just wanting to say everything I copied from MysticCat above is true for Delta Omicron, as well. I feel we are an EXTREMELY mis-understood organization.

My collegiate chapter had a local by-law in place that forbid us from being a member of another social sorority - since we acted (we felt) much the same as a social sorority. We had no requirements of being a music major/minor. If we did, I wouldn't be a member, as I have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever. We did tend to stick closer to the music department socially, but that's because we were rather looked down upon by the social sororities on campus (funny, none of the fraternities had any problems with us. Not sure what the sororities' problem was)

However, there are chapters... many chapters in fact, who require a music major to pledge, or allow dual membership (it is allowed on the international level).


As a side-note, and a return to the original topic.... DO does require that any other pins be worn beneath and to the left of our badge. As I am considering AI into an NPC sorority, this will be an issue. I plan to solve it by only wearing one badge at time.

Love from Delta Omicron,
Ginger

Re: off on a tangent...
 

I really couldn't tell you. I have virtually no personal experience with TBS or KKPsi, and I've never seen any data or statistics about this.

Oh, I didn't take it negatively. :) And this is not just Ole Miss; you have to have some music classes/ensembles to pledge. It is a national requirement. :)

I'm so glad to hear how nice the Ole Miss SAIs are! I met one at convention! Her name is Lauren and she will be president this year. She was SO sweet!

I have a simple solution. Just DON'T wear the two together if you were to be a member of both organiztions. I'm sorry but your post was rather insulting- it is in our guidelines that our badge is to be worn above and to the right, and that is the bottom line.