>>>Or a 40 year old women talking about rush. Sorry all you advisors out there, but is a little sad<<<

Sorry to hijack this thread, but this statement is offensive on many levels. Not only do collegiate chapters need 40 year old women, you desperately need their insight, advice and life experiences. They know a lot about a lot of things, rush is only one of them. These women who are still willing to "talk about rush" after they are 40 are the foundation which holds collegiate chapters together and ensures their growth. Where would you be without all those "40 year old women talking about rush" when you need advisors? I am 40+, still talking about rush and any other sorority issue about which I feel strongly. I hope I am still talking about it all when I am 80. My sorority membership did not end at graduation - it is for a lifetime. For that reason, my interest in the growth of my sorority as a whole will never end.

when I was a collegian I went through the same feelings of "why am I doing this again?" I had a horrible experience with my ex chapter advisor and was left in a terrible spot between a rock and a hard place - I'll PM with the story if you want but basically it came down to either I had to take alum status or I would be kicked out. I of course took Alum since I love Alpha Gam and the last thing I would ever do is betray who I am.

I hated AGD for what they did to me and I hated them (my advisors and some of my own sisters!) for how they treated me. I was bitter and heartbroken for a long time.

Then one day by chance I ran into an AGD - never got her name, never got her chapter, but listening to her story just made me realize how immature I had been through the whole ordeal. It took me getting out and away from the drama to understand why I pledged in the first place. It also took TIME - since the drama, I've gotten married and had a baby boy - trust me, that in itself will change your view. After I met that Alpha Gam - everything I felt as a new pledge came back to me with a renewed sense of loyalty.

I'm now more active than I have ever been and all it took was a chance meeting to open my eyes. I'm still sore at how my active career ended but I still wouldn't change anything for the world. Everyone is right - you can have overload and what you are feeling is completely normal!

take a break, take some time and rediscover your sisters :) good luck

That's what I meant...
 

I mean we have sooo many advisors that are like freaking Nazi's. I mean everything is a big deal and NO, they don't have another life. They are quite immature for people who are supposed to be old enough to know better. I was not talking about every advisor-they are extremely important and I've rarely met a successful chapter that doesn't have them. But honestly-when you graduate, it's not really all yours anymore. You have to relinquish some of that control. The new girls have their own ideas and stuff and don't have to do everything just like you do it.Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean that it has to be that way.

We made a rule that alumni have to be invited or they are not to be at -you name it function-including rush. Now we do invite most of them of course, but we are tired of intereference.

And while I am ranting: big southern universities that have the alumni do the cut list before any of those poor girls have a chance to go through rush. Pathetic. I do not want my alumni choosing who is my sister. I want to choose.If they are legacies great, if not great. I mean recs are great but who is gonna submit a shitty rec.? Even the nastiest person has someone who likes her and will write her a rec. You have to go buy what you think of them. Not someone else.

Alumni have a great place, but running the chapter is not it. The actives should be running it.

Anyhoo-way off topic-but Violets, I know how ya feel!

Re: That's what I meant...
 

I think your nationals would have something to say about that. There are rules by universities and nationals that require alum presence at many functions.

Also, lots of people will submit a "shitty" rec. You'd be surprised.

There are good and bad and sides to alums helping choose sisters. If you haven't been on the inside of a huge Southern rush, it's impossible to know the logistics and reasons.

Re: That's what I meant...
 

This is WRONG WRONG WRONG on just sooo many levels. If you've experienced advisors that pull this isht, I don't blame you for being annoyed.

Heck, I wouldn't go to rush parties after I graduated - even if I was asked - because I didn't want to take the chance of some rushee meeting me and not liking me and not pledging. Not that that would have happened of course :p but to lose a girl the chapter wanted for someone who is only around a couple times a year - I'd feel horrible.

ok I was a victim of this - my Sis Mom actually relayed this to me after I was already an alum:

my as before mentioned advisor from hell - when I first signed up for Rush, she told the girls not to even bother with me BECAUSE I WAS AN AOPi LEGACY! WTF? and it happened, the first party they hardly talked to me and I almost quit right then and there. It took a phone call to my AOPi loved one that convinced me to stick to it. Long story short, this woman was in her 30's and started shit among us to make her look good

bad bad situation :mad:

Re: That's what I meant...
 

Just a couple of things....no, things don't always have to be run the same was as when we were collegiates. Yes, there are some people out there who can not let go, however, most of the time, the alums are just trying to help you not make the same mistakes they did. The funny thing is that as a collegiate you think that you don't need the alums. You think that you could run everything and do everything without any help. You end up struggling and getting frustrated within the group. People bicker and complain and fight. Then you graduate and hear about things that are happening in the chapter. You think, "why haven't we gotten past that? Why are they re-inventing the wheel, etc. etc." It is amazing because I belive that most alums are just trying to help out, but I don't think the collegiates are listening. This happened when I was a collegiate. There were people who thought we could do it all by ourselves. The thing is, that we couldn't. After graduation, most of us were like, wow, we really could have used some help.

The best example of this attitude came just a few months ago. This particular girl was initiated when I was a senior. Last APril, we were at a wedding together and she said to me, and 2 other girls who are a year behind me....."The chapter is nothing like when you were there." No she didn't mean this in a nice way, she was being.....snotty and a few other choice words. Fast forward to last Sept.....things had been happening in the chapter that she realized that she had done and that she really wished that she had gotten help from the alums. She was all in a tizzy and was trying to help. The collegiates were not responding and she was hysterical. She asked me why collegiates didn't understand that they could use the alums. I took a deep breath and said, "Do you remember what you said to me at that wedding?" She did and she apologized. She realized that she was wrong as a collegiate, and even as an alum to think that the members who had come before her were not as "good" or whatever.

In terms of inviting or not inviting your alums to events....I second what Carnation said. That may not be something that your national office would approve. In addition, you are going to find yourselves in situations that you are looking for donations from alums....and they aren't going to give. People aren't going to help you out when you need them most.

Alums have their own chapters to "run," but we want to see our chapters flourish. We have lots of experiences that could really benefit collegiate members. There are lots of ways to involve your alums. We make great "PNMs" during practice rounds of rush. I bet you will find that some of your alums may even be recruiters or people who do interviews at their companies. Believe it or not, rushing pnms is just like doing an interview for a company. These are things that we can share. We can help you set up and clean up. We can provide you with a little extra support and pep when you are experiening a tough time.

So the morale of my story is that you shouldn't shove your alums off to the corner. We are willing to help and there are lots of things we can do for you!!!

Oh, and you may not believe me now, but I promise you will in a few years.

That is so, so true. Thank you very much for sharing this.

Re: Ya know what??????
 

:) I agree!

This is what was already said about this:


posted by carnation:

"I disagree with what people have said about advisors needing to get a life. Face it, if there were no advisors and alums helping, there would be no sorority...undergrads often don't realize this and think that certain things just magically "appear" and/or happen, but they don't.

I'm not an advisor--I'm too far from any Pi Phi chapters--but I wish I could be, to try to give back even half the experiences that were provided for us. It's like the neat things that parents try to do for their own kids (like birthday parties) so that they'll have good memories. Some people are ready to give back what they were given right after they graduate; others may take a while. Never have I met an advisor whose whole life was wrapped up in an undergrad chapter.

Check out the alum involvement forum and see why we still love and help our GLOs."



Posted by ADPiViolets:

"I agree with you, Advisors are incredibly important to undergrads. Perhaps your chapter and my own are different though. You said you never met an advisor whose life was wrapped up in an undergrad chapter. In our chapter, they are incredibly obsessed. This is well known throughout the undergrads and even in a couple of the advisors who aren't so wrapped up. Perhaps if I had the advisors you had in college, I would feel differently about this.
But like I said, they are incredibly important. Chapters would be nonexistant without them."



Posted by: LeslieAGD

"I feel like this is a separate topic, but I do have one comment. While I do feel that advisors and alums are incredibly important, I believe ADPiViolets is refering to those advisors/alums who try to live vicariously through the current members and refuse to give up control and let the collegians make decisions for themselves."


Posted by: ADPiViolets

"Exactly!"

Not necessarily
 

Our school nor our national require alum presence. As a matter of fact it is in our rush rules that only a certain number of alum are allowed at any one rush party and they are not allowed to talk to the girls at all. All they can do is serve punch or clean up or help set up or run a projector or whatever, but they can not talk to the PNM's. We have to have one advisor there. That's it. We usually have tons more, but all that's required is one.

You're right about having had to be on the inside of a big southern rush to really understand, but I've talked to girls at convention and leadership conference, friends at other schools etc. etc. I've heard enough to know I wouldn't like it.

And I can't believe someone would submit a bad rec! I mean, talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

Blue Violet clean out you PM box. :)

Re: Re: That's what I meant...
 

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Take a good, hard look at chapters where your sisters (or your brothers, as appropriate!) are struggling for whatever reason. Then, take a good look at their alum relations program. Do they have an involved group of alumni/alumnae advisers? A functioning House or Corporation Board?

Do the alums offer their help with the "dirty work" for recruitment functions (prepping food/drink, doing dishes, cleaning, decorating, donating money?) Will the alums come "home" for Founders' Day, Homecoming, chapter celebrations? If something like Homecoming is a big deal at your school and for your Greek system, and your alums don't come back, it's a clear sign there is a serious problem with alumnae relations.

I'd guess that at least 8 times out of 10, there is little or no alum support at a struggling chapter. There may be hundreds, or even thousands of alums in the same area--they just can't or don't or won't help out. It's sad, and it happens.

We are collegiate members of our GLOs anywhere from 1-5 years. We are members of our respective GLOs for LIFE. Just because someone is an alum, it doesn't mean we aren't still sisters (or brothers!)

Christin

Well, wait until you are told that Alums are a pain in the ass. They do not run the Chapter!!!!!!

While that is true, Alums do not run the Chapter, it is amazing when a Chapter gets into trouble, who do they call?

Sure as hell aint Super/Bat Man!

It is a fine line what the Alums do! We are Members of Our Fraternity and have full rights and priviliages as do the Active members.

We set up a mentoring group to WORK With the Active Chapter, not tell them what to do!

We discuss from our experiences, try to work within the current times and give suggestions from both open forums to private meetings with the members who are not only Officers but those who will someday become Officers! We also include the New Associates who will be New Brothers!

We get to know them as individuals and try to give out expetise in situations!

We do not dictate to them! But the members of the House Corporation do dictate to them as We own the House!

Well, after doing it twice a Semester for 3 years it is bearing fruit. The Chapter is Growing and we are going to build a new house starting in May of 2003!

For the Actives who do not think you need Alums, think again!

For the Alums who try to run the Active Chapter, You had better think again also! I am the Oldest member of the Chapter, but I do not allow them to call me mister, It is Tom or Brother Earp! Cut and Dried!:D

Two way street! Work together or be gone !!:(

First I want to address ADPiViolets concern... it is very natural to feel a sense of "burn-out" sometimes. During Recruitment things can become even more strained. It is a hard time when some sisters want to extend offers to certain ladies and others are not as excited about them. It is important to keep in mind that some of the best friends you will have are those you wouldn't expect. Try to make the best of it and take some time away. It works wonders.

Secondly I want to address the Alumnae issues that have come up in this discussion. If your Alumnae members are really making the Recruitment decisions, there is a problem. ADPi has a great solution to this problem being that only Delta (Active) members are able to participate in the actual selection process. For those of you who do not appreciate the participation of Alumnae in your organization, please keep in mind that it was their hard work that brought and kept the chapter there so you can participate as part of the sorority. It is also the Alumnae that voluntarily give money to your National/International Organization to keep it running (at least it is voluntary in ADPi).

Thirdly, it is not that the Alumnae members do not have life so at 40 they want to live vicariously through collegiate members. It is the fact that they have found the true meaning of the sorority. To many actives, a sorority is something to do (or the thing to do), something to put on a resume, or just a college thing. Alumnae members have found the deeper meaning. They realize that a sorority is a lifelong sisterhood. With Alpha Delta Pi, we say that, "it is a way of life". In college I thought, that sounds good. But after I took Alumnae status I didn't continue my involvement with the sorority. When I moved to the Kansas City area, I didn't know a lot of people. One of the first things I did was contact our area Alumnae Associations and asked how to get involved. The group gave me instant connections and I had people to talk to and do things with. Now that I have established my career and I have found my direction, I feel I should give something back to the sorority that gave me so much. While I am not 40, I hope to continue the same level of involvement when I am. I don't want to control a chapter but I don't mind to step up when I see collegiates making decissions because they, "have someplace better to be." I remember when I would give in to just get out of the meetings. As Alumnae members, we strive to ensure that decisions are made based on what is best for the LONG TERM survival of the chapter and sorority as a whole. Our motto is, "make ADPi the better place to be". Again, I don't think Alumnae have any business making recruitment decisions, they do have a place in helping manage money and overseeing (chaperoning) certain events.

<> Jen <>