DoggyStyle, I wanted to explain to you exactly WHY I felt the need to change up on my thoughts/opinions, but I didn't want to do it here. (I don't want to keep this going) You don't have an e-mail address in your profile, but feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss it further. I believe my address is in my profile.

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

Blonde 1...

I didn't know that Alpha was synonmous with gay men...All Black Frats deal with this b/c you can find Gay Ques, Kappas and Sigmas...

If one were associate ALPHA with anything...one could feasibly say Arrogant...but this is stupid!

I agree with other frat on this issue who say no...Our Beloved Fraternity is founded on Christian Principles, this is not in line with that

Further, how is having sex with another man a manly deed, it's not!

And can you truly be "brotherly" if you are trying to get with him?

NO NO NO!!!

While, it's not my business...our fraternity supports AGAPE love between it's members, NOT Eros love.

Personally, I don't want to know...It's not my business...I think the organization as a whole frowns on what it deems as sexual immorality....

A PHI,

Ice Cold Kreator

IceColdKreator,

You said:
"Further, how is having sex with another man a manly deed, it's not!

And can you truly be 'brotherly' if you are trying to get with him?"
--------------------------------------------
In response to your first point...how is being a man who is intimate with another man less than "manly"? That's a stereotype. There are some men who are intimate with women who I don't consider "manly." Anyone can "stick it" (pardon my French) anywhere, but does where they stick it determine their manhood? No, I think not! Manhood is about the way one carries himself; manhood is about carrying oneself with pride and respect and confidence, just to name a few things. And gay men certainly do that. Not all gay men, but then again, not all heterosexual men carry themselves well either.

And as for your second point, don't assume that just because someone is gay, they automatically have sex on the brain, or they trying to see how to "recruit" heterosexuals. Once again, a stereotype. Most gay men are not even thinking about straight men. And I would venture to say that if a gay man had received the privilege of becoming a member of your illustrious brotherhood, he would not be sitting around scheming on how to get his frat brothers in bed. He would be handlin' his, serving the community, representing your organization to the fullest.

Hey, like someone said in a previous post, you have probably already hugged, given daps or pounds to a frat brother who is gay but you don't know it. And..there are probably frat brothers of yours who you admire and respect and they are gay too. So you just never know...just a few thoughts...

Anyway, that's my two cents... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

------------------
"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

BrandNubian, I would say it was not my intention to offend you or anyone else...but that would be dishonest. I like being completely honest with people, and I will not treat you or anyone in this forum any different. The truth is, I just didn't take anyone's feelings into consideration when I made the comment on condoning homosexuality and for that I will apologize.

I still stand strong in my beliefs about homosexuality, but I now understand I am not the one to judge ANYONE, gay or straight.

You did bring up a rather interesting question on whether or not homosexuality/heterosexulaity is a lifestyle.
I actually helped a friend write a paper last year on that particular topic. I have a very good answer for that, but am not sure if it's offensive or not. I don't think I can express it in a way that will not sound judgemental.

I am not a closed minded person...well not too closed minded ... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif which is why I deleted the previous post and thought the situation over. Just because I don't agree with something, doesn't mean I can't respect your feelings.


[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

Ok BrandNubian, I think I can answer the question something like this...Yes, I do believe heterosexuality is a lifestyle as well.....just as being religious and going to church regularly is...just as someone who regularly abuses drugs, and practices promiscuity is a lifestyle. The latter is a lifestyle that some of us may deem ,highly inappropriate...but nevertheless, it's a lifestyle for some.
And, for the record, I am not trying to link promiscuity with homosexuality...so don't get pissed or anything, it's the only example that I could think of.

I guess I will sound ignorant and proud of it . No! Homosexuality is not liked by my org., and I think that brandnubian's remarks are hindering any progress of anyone anywhere with his/her ridiculous comments.

The ideals put forth by brotherhood are for the better making of men, not some animal house twisted perversion...How do you feel about sodomites?

1SSf97:

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but I was troubled by the fact that you called my statements ridiculous. I have tried my best in this forum (and in all forums) to be respectful to others, even when I disagree with them. And certainly I would never call anyone's beliefs/opinions ridiculous. I think that most people on this forum try to be respectful of each other. How else would open forums be maintained, if not with some modicum of respect and consideration? I think that you should extend the same consideration and respect. That's all I ask. You don't have to agree with me...

That's my two cents...

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

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"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Alpha Phi Alpha was founded by SEVEN MEN; not seven undecided! MANHOOD is a pre-requisite. If gays want a fraternity, let them found their own.

I find it interesting that so many disapprove of the homosexual "lifestyle" yet have no problem engaging in, condoning and celebrating premarital sex and unmarried parenthood among themselves and their peers.

Some of these same people celebrate the fact that they let some MAN beat their ASS in order to get into a fraternity (if that's not homoerotic, I don't know what is!). Or, get all excited about how MANLY they are to do their babymama a "favor" and take care of the out-of-wedlock children (or can we still say "bastards" any more?) they created.

If you're going to take SOME of the moral lessons of our Judeo-Christian tradition (I hope I didn't use too big of a word for some of you), then take all of it, and examine yourselves and your own behavior. What did the Bible say about taking the log out of your eye before telling your sister/brother about the stick in theirs?

Yall are trippin' in here...

Discogoddess:

Sisterfriend, I salute you on your very well-said post!!! You just dropped some serious knowledge and I agree with EVERYTHING you are saying. Thank you for your post! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression,
B.N.

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"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

MY SOROR DG...

SHE HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!

SSSSSKKKKKKEEEEEEEEE-WWWWWEEEEEEEEEEE!

Who brought these lifestyles into the discussion? (whoremongering and absentee fatherhood) For the women so intent on getting gays admitted into Frats, why not let them in your sorority.? I'm sure they have more in common with you. If a frat doesn't want your hairdresser of interior decorator in their org, why are you upset? No one said that they hate gays or would take rights away from them. It is not Discogoddeses, BrandNubians, or AKA92 place to decide who someone can let in. Like I posted earlier, private orgs can discriminate. Does your chapter accept the campus slut? Does your alumni chapter accept the town hoe? A girl known to get drunk and act a fool in public. A thugged out girl with mannish ways? A butch bull-dyke who rides harleys and chews tobacco?. I think that AKA would have a problem with any of them wearing para or representing your org to the public. But who are you to judge? If all of these women have the grades and great public service records, why judge WHO they are and HOW they lead their lives. If homosexuality is equal or on par with heterosexuality, why is not promiscuity as equally a viable lifestyle as chastity or monagamy? Drunkeness with sobriety? Bull-dyke with Finer Womanhood? Since we all have a "log in our eye" somewhere, and we cannot judge, then all lifestyles (sins) are equivalent, with none neither better nor worse than the others. Other than minimum grade requirements and proof of community service, all other criteria is based on judgement of charcter and lifestyle.

Another thing, having sex with women is what REAL men do (its natural). Initiation into male ritualistic orgs has been the same or similar for at least 3000 years (mentally and physically challenging). I'm sure that the millions of Men who have been initiated over the centuries would be surprised to find out that they are really closeted homosexuals (per your homoerotic reasoning).

DoggyStyle:

If the shoe fits...(regarding the homoerotic thing). To your point about ritualistic societies of men, many included what we Westerners consider homosexual acts as part of their rituals and/or rites of passage.

I'm not going to argue this with you-you already HAVE gay men in all NPHC fraternities, so this is a moot point. Further, THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, unless you're going to start spending precious fraternity resources on outing and ousting people (never mind the hazing lawsuits, and social and political work that needs to be done in our communities-we've got to hunt down some queers, right? Isn't that sooo important?).

May I also point out, that many of these already initiated, in many cases contributing brothers are the most "manly" and certainly not hairdressers or interior decorators. That stereotype is old and tired, just like this reactionary discussion.




[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited September 07, 2000).]

Discogoddess:

Once again, very well said! AND once again, I must agree with your points. They are gays and lesbians everywhere, including in the NPHC fraternities and sororities, and all of them DO NOT fit the stereotypical profile given by DoggyStyle82.

And ultimately, the question has to be, "With all the other things in the world to worry about, all the things that a fraternity/sorority sets out to accomplish in its community, is a person's sexual orientation the main concern?"

But that's what I said in my first post...so I guess things just come full circle. This topic IS extremely reactionary...we could go on for days...

Peace, Love and Progression
BN

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"Queens shouldn't swing...if you know what I mean.."

Although I am not a member of any Greek letter organization, I am going to have to use the same point that I used when there was a discussion about single mothers joining sororities on the undergraduate level. Fraternity members have the right to use what ever subjective criteria they choose to pick the members of their frat: tall, short, 4.0 GPA, committed Christians, heterosexual, perfect vision, six toes on one foot---whatever. Since selection is done on a chapter by chapter basis, and their is no way that the same standards could be applied uniformly across the board, I am sure we all know someone who is a member of a sorority/fraternity that probably would not have made the cut on another campus because of the characteristics that chapter deemed more important than others. People are expressing what they would do with their ONE VOTE--not official fraternity policy. They have a right to do that.