I kinda suspect that some husbands and wives share their rituals... Most of the secrecy problems are probably low-key, not people trying to "out" secrets, but older members who haven't connected with their group for a while...

I've seen websites that supposedly reveal Masonic rituals and secrets...do you all think they're fake like the fraternity/sorority ones? I was just wondering, because it seems like a Masonic ritual book would be easier to get ahold of than one from a fraternity or sorority somehow. I mean, my family has one--it was my grandfather's, but out of respect for the organization I've promised myself I won't look in it--although I will admit it's been tempting at times to satisfy my curiosity ;)!

I'm sure your right. There is probably some degree of "secret revealing" among spouses, biological brothers/sisters, etc. that is no where near as detrimental as a public web page. My parents have been begging me since I initiated to tell me what initiation is like, but my lips are sealed. I think they're afraid I had to swallow a goldfish ! :p

If you have ever seen a Mosonic or LXA Ritual Book, you would not be able to read it!

WHY? Because of the symbols used that has to be learned by heart!

Did I ever tell my ex wife about my Ritual--HELL KNOW!

I had the Ritual equipment at my house at school (Married then).

She asked me if She could look at it!

Very plainly told her if she looked I would Divorce her IMMED! Do You think I was kidding, hell dont kid yourself, I was serious!

As to my Brothers, I do not know of any who have given our secrets! Speaking for My Chapter only but knowing my fellow Brothers, I would say no. But dat be da qustion!!

I think at some point, you have to place the man or woman you want to be with forever over your fraternity/sorority. Don't get me wrong, she shouldn't have asked in the first place. I'm not in a sorority- yet- so I accept that I can't totally understand, but i think that if you really love your wife or husband you wouldn't dream of divorcing him/her for the sake of your fraternity.

Dont kid your self!

You get Married, You Get Divorced, but you are a Member for Life!

And I was was serious as hell!

I still have My Fraternity Brothers! I would love to get into when My ex was dating a Brother and he was the keynote speaker at Founders day!

What a hoot!

Do You as An Alum Keep in touch and give back to your ORG?

Are you a 4-5 yrear member or for life?

I can depend on my Brothers to be of aid. There have been many times when we help each other.

Remember, we are talking 30+ years! Just what the heck do you or will you have if you do not keep in touch with them and be a part still>?

In a perfect world, you would get married once and it'd be for life, just like in a perfect world everyone would be as dedicated to their Org. as you are. I personally think the spouse comes first. My opinion, but I do respect yours.

I agree.

On a side note......
 

Side note from a casual observer on the thread.....

My husband is involved in two private fraternities. I learned right up front there are some things you just don't ask because the answer is MYOB. Not in a bad way, just that there is a boundary that he's not crossing. He'll hand me his old pledge manual to read, and the alumni magazine. But any questions that approach profound secrets or ritual will be met w/ a whole lot of silence.

It was a little frustrating at first--that as husband and wife we are expected to share "everything" and there was a part of him that I will never see. But as a little time went on, I realized that his privacy regarding fraternity ritual gave me the freedom to keep things private too if I wanted. (I know that sounds obvious, but it really was a revelation, especially to a non-Greek.)

It was also some motivation to persue AI. He can't share his secrets with me from fraternity (and even if he did, it would be for nothing because I can not experience the brotherhood)--so the best way for me to understand that side of him is to find sisterhood for myself. So that means some sorority in the future can thank him for their new alumna (I hope!) ;)

I like to think that the way we handled secrecy issues regarding ritual reinforces the integrity of the Greek system, as well as respecting it.

Adrienne
:)

I definately agree that the spousal relationship is far more important than the sisterhood/brotherhood one, although this in no way justifies telling the secrets!!! IMHO, you should deal with an inquisitive non-Greek's questions about secrets constructively ("Hun, I love you, but I took an important oath that is very serious to me. It in no way affects my commitment to you--I took an oath when we got married, and my commitment to keep my GLO's secrets shows that I am able to keep oaths, rather than displaying that I don't trust you") rather than lashing out (WHAT?!?! I'll DIVORCE you if you ask that!!!"). No offense Tom, I love you, but maybe that's why you ARE divorced....

But yeah I think that there are a lot of marital/familial secrecy breeches. For example, in my chapter one sister's mother was a member of an NPC sorority we don't have at my school, and she told me that when she was little her mom told her and her dad some of the secrets that she "vaguely" remembered. I think people end up viewing things like grips, etc, as somewhat quaint, rather than highly meaningful. It's a shame but that's the way it is. :(

I remember asking my father once what something about his organization (Sigma Phi Epsilon) stood for, and he wouldn't tell me because of the oath he took. At the time I was a pledge and didn't understand the loyalty. However, even with me (his daughter) my father wouldn't tell me a thing. I can see why, now having been an initiated member of my own organization.

I don't know that my mother would tell me a lot about her organization because she probably doesn't remember much. She was only a part of it for a year or so (cuz then she got married and had me).

On a different note, the one thing us Greeks can do against these sites that defame our organizations is sue for slander. If the way the person reveals the information is slanderous it could be used against them in the court of law. I know all about this. Although the internet and website material is very touchy, it could still be found libel!
So there IS hope. It just may take some time. Remember, information can be shared (there is no doubt about that). But the way a person goes about sharing that information and the accusations they make can be considered libel (especially if it's being used to harm the reputation of one's organization).

yes, but you took an oath to both, if you can not be trusted to follow your oath to the GLO by keeping it's secrets hidden except to members then how can you be trusted in your other oaths, such as marriage vows? If I get married would I tell my wife any secrets of my fraternity? Most definately not. If she gets angry at me for it so be it, I believe as I have stated before in this post. Would I use the same tact and wording as Tom? Probably not, but that doesn't mean I don't believe as strongly about my fraternity as he does of his.

Excellent analogy Aurora. My boyfriend is a former military man and there are some things regarding his service that I just don't ask about.

BTW, I used to live just outside Anchorage when my dad worked up in Prudhoe Bay. :) I miss having a white Christmas. Winter in Arkansas just doesn't compare to Alaska!!!

In the Eleusian Mysteries the punishment for revealing the "lesser secerts", the working ritual, symbols, etc, was death. The "greater mysteries" were the pricipals and feeling of that you were doing good and on the right path of course can't be revealed because they are inefible. I've never heard of any Theta Chi revealing our secrets. Hopefully it won't ever happen.

I totally agree precious