Please, tell me you are JOKING!!! Cause if you're trying to tell me that you think joining a group of men you call brothers, you call friends, is a bond that is only formed by the stress enduced practice of hazing then I say you are a complete masochist. You compare it to war?!? To people who have been in compat and fought for their lives?? COMMON!!! People go to war to fight for a cause. Their bond is formed in their attempt to achieve this cause. The don't go to war to form bonds. It's a bi-product of their common goal. You are comparing the importance of having men in a fraternity accept you as their brother to fighting for your country? You're quite the patriot. If it takes war like conditions to bring you closer to your 'brothers', then you are a masochist. If that's what it takes to gain YOUR committment and whole hearted brotherhood, then you don't know what REAL brotherhood is really all about.

Leslie


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Gamma Phi Beta
University of Toronto
Alpha Alpha

[This message has been edited by gphi2k (edited February 15, 2001).]

Okay Billy Optimist, I finally got our answer. I checked out Gaspard's icq profile (cause he has his number listed in his profile). He's a 19 year old guy whose name is Dustin Gaspard. So it's just his last name. That's all. He's probably some neophyte who is trying to justify the fact he put himself through hell to join his frat. Kinda like, if he says it enough, he may actually make himself believe it.

Leslie



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Gamma Phi Beta
University of Toronto
Alpha Alpha

gphi2k-

Thank you so much. I've been going through lots of dictionaries and nothing came up. I guess that explains it though. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Anyway, he still hasn't been back.

"Their bond is formed in their attempt to achieve this cause."

That is my point exactly! A heightened level of Brotherhood is created during the struggle. Many of the methods that my chapter uses have roots in the military, however I am not comparing it with going to war. It is a parallel, cause and effect. While war has a very different struggle, it is my contention that it is the struggle that creates those bonds. Not happy face meetings that stink of political correctness. Many GLO's cannot even call it pledging anymore. We have never, in over 30 years (in my chapter), harmed a pledge. We have never had any physical abuse. We have never had any alcohol present during any educational activity. Everything that we do to or with a pledge class has a lesson. Yes, during my pledge period there were times when I though the world was ending. Every time we thought we hit bottom, we would be taken a little deeper. Deeper than any of us thought we would or could ever go. When it was over, it was not down that we were going, but deeper into a Brotherhood that few will ever know.

Do you have any secrets from your brothers? Answer truthfully. I do not. Brotherhood is where I can go to have any wound healed. It is a very special place, not like any other I have been too. Certainly it is the reason that I feel so strongly about my Brothers, my Chapter, and my chosen way of Life.

I do not degrade you fro the way your chapter chooses to operate. My point here is that some GLO's are still doing it the way its always been and doing so successfully. I also realize that there are those that will say that we should not exist anymore if we cannot conform to there ways. If we did conform, we would not exist.

And going to college isn't enough stress?

I've made lifelong friendships even outside of my sorority. And I have lifelong sisters and didn't have to go through "calculated induced stress". My sisters and I are proof that IT CAN HAPPEN...so N2, I don't know how your statement could possibly be true!



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*I'm an Alpha Gam...Yes I am, Yes I am!*

All I can say to that is, wow, I'm jealous. I wish I could have gone to hell to form the close bonds I formed without having to go to hell. I wish I had taken your route. It sounds so much more rewarding. (please, not extreme sarcasm in EVERY word).

Leslie

You so craaaaazy....LMAO! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

soror6

I've said this before, but I want to say it again. I agree that people bond through hardship. However, life is hard as it is. I bond with my sisters when they help me through the hard times - not if they create the hard times.

Allie

N2 is obviously a bit delusional. If I had to marry a boyfriend's fraternity, I think I'd not like that too much LOL. I wouldn't expect him to marry my sorority, that's for sure.

N2, if you can provide one instance of hazing that take you into these awful depths of hell and can show me the benefit, I may believe you, but up until now, you've proven nothing except that low self-esteem will allow you to let people do whatever they like to you until they allow you into their group.

I didn't read all the posts, I admit, but I noticed the mention of "lack of hazing" = "lack of hardship" = "lack of bonding"

However, just because you're not being hazed doesn't mean that the time you spend earning your letters isn't VERY difficult and challenging . . .

If you don't believe in hazing that's fine. It's a personal decision and I respect that. But if you haven't been through it then keep your mouth shut because you don't know what your talking about. You people who go on and on about how bad it is say that because of the very fact that you haven't been through it. When you go through so much $hit with a group of guys the bond that you share is something that could never be explained, only felt. So don't act like you know what you're talking about or what those of us that have been through it feel. You don't have a clue.

DM, you fail to realize that many of those on this board who oppose hazing were once hazed themselves. Take me, for example. I pledged a local sorority on my campus that forced me to be submissive to them at all times on and off campus; who humiliated me time and time again. And what was that for? It was for nothing! They simply did it because it was "tradition". Needless to say, I depledged and it was one of the best decisions of my life. I don't think I'm a weak person because I left. I was a better person for standing up to those tw@ts. Heck, my own MOTHER never treated me that way...and what gives them the right to do so?

I decided to give Greek Life another chance with AGD--they never hazed me nor did they force me to prove how much I wanted to be a part of their group. Yes the bonds of friendship are there--and what makes you think they're any different from your organization? Do you think that yours are better because you were hazed? Riiiiight.

So I guess you can say that I do know how it feels like to be hazed. I'm just sorry that I let it get that far. My experiences are what formed my opinions...so yes, I do have a clue! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

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*I'm an Alpha Gam...Yes I am, Yes I am!*

for those of us that think hazing is okay -we will continue to do so.... and those of us who think its wrong, we will not.

we can argue back and forth till we run out of server space, but the point is people will do what they want!

PrettyPoodle6
"The 6th Descendant of Eos"
*no-skating allowed*

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http://www.iun.edu/~sgr/sghrostickfigs.gif Rhoyal Blue and Gold...I LOVE my SGRho!


[This message has been edited by prettypoodle6 (edited February 20, 2001).]

For those of you who think hazing is OK:

Which part of "ILLEGAL" don't you understand?

What is difficult about the concept of "LOSE YOUR CHARTER?"

How is the term "LIABILITY" unclear to you?

Of the "DEATHS" attributed to hazing, which one benefited brother/sisterhood?

And for DM, stop and think for a minute. Do you really believe that we alums (I pledged during the 60's) weren't hazed and don't understand what it means? Do you think that we haven't seen this issue from both sides? Don't you suppose that some of us have had military training or played varsity sports?

If hazing isn't past tense in your national or chapter you're on the road to extinction. The rest of us don't want to join you there.

DeltAlum

AXPAlum--

We were always told that if sisters and new members were doing activities together, then it isn't hazing. The activities should be things that brothers or sisters would be willing to do as well. Just a thought http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif