I grew up in the same environment that momoffour is in and totally get it.

And I would hope the judgment as to which sorority one pledges would stop in environments like this. I get not wanting a loved one in a chapter that always struggles but I've known girls who pledged houses st SEC schools that were strong middle tier houses but not a "top 5" or not a deeply cherished Southern stronghold sorority. The conversation among some moms and friends was "She could have pledged X and I wish she had BUT ... (fill in the blank, said with a sigh). Not all moms, of course but some.

And it's not much different re: judgment and perception in other areas like getting into an elite private school vs public university. Doesn't mean you're a better person, perhaps you simply wanted a difference environment or experience.

I think that's why the influx of out-of-state students at these big, competitive schools with entrenched tier systems like Ole Miss and Alabama is such a good thing. These students aren't from that area and didn't grow up hearing "XYZ or bust", so they're much more likely to happily accept a bid from a chapter some in-state girls might turn their heads up at.

Exactly.

What gets me is people's willingness to let it continue.

I come from a tradition where one doesn't go to school in the home state, and seldom returns to hometown after graduation; we follow careers, not geography. But excusing those who perpetuate the "XXX, YYY or ZZZ only" mentality exacerbates what I see as a problem and what apparently others see as "oh, well, that's life."

This whole discussion is reinforcing the happiness I felt when my daughter chose not to rush in Texas.

THIS. Everything Tess said times a zillion. We really are better than that, in 2017, aren't we? Apparently not, sadly, in some pockets of the USA. Sigh.

I'm so glad I went to school in California.

Yes, this.

And if one of my friends looked down on me because of where my (at present, imaginery) daughter was accepted to school or which sorority she joined, I'd tell that "friend" to go pound sand. No one needs people like that in their life.

Can't agree enough!! I'm from the northeast and was in a "competitive" sorority at an SEC school way back in the 80's. I had a wonderful experience, but I so remember how cut throat it was once I was participating in the rush process as a member. It's one of the main reasons I didn't want to stay in the south and hoped my girls wouldn't go south for college.

Fortunately they chose Big Ten schools. While momoffour desperately wanted her daughter to pledge XYZ chapters, I desperately wanted my girls to have a positive rush experience and land in a house where they felt happy and comfortable. I didn't know or care about where it fell on the spectrum of popularity.

Tons of my neighborhood friends were in sororities and several wrote recs for my daughters and I've done the same for many of them. We have NEVER had a discussion about who landed where in terms of anything but happiness and pride for any and all sororities.

I really think all this crazy stuff perpetuates in the south because of parents and alums.

At a reception, I was speaking with a dear friend of my parents whose children and grandchildren all attended Auburn and were all Greek. All the girls joined one of the most desired sororities, but one granddaughter joined a different, although equally as desirable sorority. The grandmother spoke in such hushed tones about how surprised they all were that she chose a different group. You would've thought there had been a death in the family. I was amused.

But I guess you have to be from the south to understand and not criticize. After all, we don't hide our crazy relatives in the attic; we put them in a rocker on the front porch with a glass of co'cola and a moon pie.

Oh yes we do! I have 100 of those stories!

I love this! It's that way in Texas, too.

Sciencewoman is very right in that this stuff doesn't just happen in the south. If I didn't have evidence of that I'd still be living in my hometown. I pick up a newspaper from there and it's just like being back in high school, except the first names are Emma and Braden instead of Lisa and Mark. (The last names are the same, natch.)

For a woman in the 1940s, '70s, and early '60s, it was probably more important than the educational experience because it was not so necessary, in many people's eyes, for a woman to have a degree. I know plenty of older women who would talk about a brother getting to go to college while their parents refused to pay for daughter's college, or required her to go to work, or a business school.
Back then it was often taken for granted that a woman who got married before getting her degree would drop out of school...heck, back then they expected to get pregnant within first year or two of marriage.
I even remember a couple my age who talked about their parents only paying for one or two years. They had to pay for the rest, or find a husband who would pay for it!

Yes, I was a member of a struggling chapter. We never pledged quota, we constantly were doing COB. Girls resigned left and right so they could live in an apartment instead of the house. It is not fun to go through your chapter closing...and visiting campus seeing another group's name on your house.
It's similar to a death in the family.

I know this is slightly off topic, but I remember my mom telling me a story about a DAR meeting she attended, she brought along my younger sister due to her being back from school. I remember her saying she introduced my sister, and informed her DAR ladies that my younger sister had just proudly accepted her bid to Gamma Phi Beta. My mom mentioned that the older members in the chapter were shocked, not due to what organization she joined, but due to the fact that she ignored her legacy to Sigma Kappa, and to Chi Omega, which is my grandma's organization. They kept asking my mom why she would allow us to join different organizations. My mom is pretty blunt and told them that this way she has daughters (and a mother) who were in different but wonderful organizations and that our children would be legacies to more chapters!! I think that this mentality still exists, it is changing, but change can be slow. Best of luck to your daughter, it only takes one new member class to be the change that a chapter needs!!

From what my mom has told me, that was exactly the norm. Fortunately, her parents and my dad (they were high school sweethearts) were progressive.

My mom was one of 3 female students in the business school at Michigan State in the early 1950s, and she dealt with overt condescension from a couple faculty members...until they figured out she could hold her own. Then they kind of left her alone. Of course, she had to also earn a teaching certificate and started out as a business/econ teacher. She had wanted to be a lawyer, but her dad said, "I think you're going to have to rethink that," because she would have faced a lot of difficulty getting into law school, and getting hired, and working through law firm politics, the partnership track, etc.

I have a great deal of admiration and respect for the women who founded our organizations as groups where they could find support and encouragement as pioneering women in higher education. That is always at the front of my mind when I think about my sorority membership. Since I initiated at a chapter chartered in 1882, it has been a prominent part of my view of sororities since the beginning. I had a couple classes in Haven Hall, named after the father of one of our founders, who was an early supporter of co-education.

Sciencewoman, I wholeheartedly agree. As a woman in science myself (funny with your username!), it has been interesting to see the way that the times have changed. From what my mom has told me and from what I have learned about ASA, I am very blessed to not be the only woman in my classes and to not experience condescension. As a former teacher's sorority, ASA prioritizes education and I have an incredible amount of respect for our founders who wanted to encourage other women to go to college back in 1901. It gives me a new perspective on what a privilege it is to attend a university in a formerly male-dominated field.

As far as the conversation on "WRCs" goes, on my campus we are considered as such. However, we do decently at recruitment and usually make or get extremely close to quota. Our chapter total is on the higher side and we are involved on campus. I believe our issue is that we are a young chapter on an old Greek campus, with some chapters being here since the 1870s, and we are simply not polished yet. We also do not have a house, which can be make or break here, though many of my sisters enjoy that we have more freedom in that regard. If you had asked me as a PNM if I wanted to join ASA, I would have laughed. They were not impressive during recruitment and I didn't want to go back. But over time, I started to see that they were genuine women who had a lot to offer and the national organization had values that aligned with mine. Additionally, the young age of the chapter presented the opportunity to help lead the growth and leave a legacy for the members who will come in the future. In the end, I can't imagine not being in ASA and would not trade my sisters for a different chapter any day.