Its actually in the constitution that states have the right to set their own legal drinking age. It seems crappy that the gov't gets around that by threatening to withold fed. highway money. That's what happened to LA.

Its just not that big of a deal around here. Most parents I know are just really cool about the whole thing. Sure, a lot of those kids may still binge drink on occasion, but I think that has more to do with the 21 age limit rather than an overall attitude towards alcohol.

I think it has a lot do to with Louisiana's French and Spanish history, as opposed to the Puritain foundings of a lot of the other states. Its just a totally different attitude towards things. I was always allowed to have wine with dinner if I wanted it. I'd usually just drink 3 sips and give the rest to my mom. Most kids don't like it that much. So, drinking wasn't a really big deal for me in college, except when it was the forbidden fruit, something I couldn't get until I reached 21. I have a friend, however, who's parents kept alcohol a big taboo. And she was all wierd about drinking. She'd talk about it all the time - fixate on getting some from a 21+ friend, etc. Now that she's over 21, she'll go to bars and do 5, 6, 10 shots - and this girl is like 5'1 and 90lbs! Her dad is a psychologist, so you think he'd know better than to make something so forbidden that it becomes attractive :rolleyes:

I defintely think that the more you make somethiing forbidden, the more kids will want it!

Re: NOPE!
 

Now this is your opinion and as such it should be respected, and I will respect it, but I find a few things disturbing in your post that I want to address or ask you. You think that teenagers are "overfed, overindulged, and spoiled as it is?" I find it hard to agree with that because I feel for the most part that our government today gives a little more responsibility and/or credibility to these teenagers that turn 18.

***When you turn 18 you now have the right***

*To give legal consent to have sex
*Are given the right to vote on the future leaders of your government
*Are allowed to be shipped off and fight (and possibly die) for your country (pending h.s. diploma).
*Some states you are old enough to buy a firearm.

To me some of these things give teenagers A LOT of power. I also take it to mean that at this age teenagers are entrusted with some of the things stated above, and possibly somethings I did not state. How twisted is it to be old enough to have the opportunity to pick or help a government, and to be old enough to fight and die for the country, but still have to wait a few years to legally have an alcoholic beverage? I don't understand it, it makes no sense to me at all.

If it is more of an issue about maturity, it is never a given that teh age of 21 is automatically associated with "maturity." I know people that are of legal drinking age and still act like they freshman in high school, so I don't buy the maturity argument.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Blaine

Cop Out Arguments
 

Sorry, but you are just saying to "Let 'em drink, cuz they're just going to do it any ol' way". WHAT ABOUT SELF RESTRAINT?? What about a little self discipline? What about consequences for your behavior? How about adults stop pawning off their parental responsibilities to teach kids right from wrong onto "society" at large, or why don't you punish them if they BREAK THE LAW?? And consequences, no one ever talks about consequences. Sure, let kids just have sex, that's fine, but guess what? Mistakes = pregnancy. Mistakes with alcohol? THAT CAN EQUAL DEATH!

Geez, also, why can't we just let kids be kids for a while? Enjoy having less worries than an adult and stop trying to grow up so friggin' fast!

I guess I am just tired of seeing kids and teens, treat adults and authority with such disrespect and irregard. My mother told me the other day (she's a guidance couselor in a HS) that a parent called her to talk about something and tacked onto the sentence, "Well, little Janie (I don't remember her name) tells me to just 'Fu*k off' when I tell her stuff anyway, so it doesn't matter..." WHAT?!?!? IF I told my parents to fukk off, I would have gotten slapped in the face, practically chained to my bed except for school, and grounded for a month!!!!! NO ONE WANTS TO HURT KIDS FEELINGS THESE DAYS!! Oh, be careful, little Jonnie might put a gun to his classmate's head if he doesn't get to borrow the Beemer tomorrow! WHAT THE HELL!?!?! Sorry, kids are overindulged, spoiled little brats these days and they don't need, no DESERVE, any more priviledges....

AND STOP WITH THE BEING KILLED FOR THE COUNTRY!!!!! ONCE AGAIN, JOINING THE MILITARY IS VOLUNTARY! Yes, the Selective Service still exists. Why not fight against that?? DEAL WITH THE LAW!!!!!!

Hey, I think your capslock button might be broken, but that's beside the point. Get your point across without shouting, people might take you more seriously :)

In all honesty, it's the truth, if you can fight for your country, you should be able to have a beer. Self restraint comes from within in, no matter what the situation. It's up to the person that is drinking to control themself, or to the person that is having sex to be protected, or to the owner of the gun to be safe in how they handle it. You don't achieve "self restraint" by keeping "the legal drinking age" higher.

I see nothing wrong with letting kids be kids, but many in today's society want to grow up, and like it or not, when the turn that big one eight, they are granted such adult respnsibilites, that's called "the real world."

I think that it gets more personal for you about this situation which is understandable. Yet, you are involving a personal situation to argue for you, note that these are all opinions, and any argument is an argument, not a "cop out argument." If we were labeling arguments, yours could be noted as a "cop out" as well. I respect your opinion, a little respect given back doesn't hurt.

Blaine

No, but you have to exercise self restraint to not break the law! Sorry, but the law is the law right now. I highly doubt it's going to be lowered. And truthfully, the whole reason people want it to be legal is so that they can not stress about fighting their desires and cravings for this substance. And again, alcohol is only desired for the effect it causes, NOT for the taste and appreciation of it. Tell me the true reason and I will give that person credit: you want to get drunk and get loose without worrying about getting in trouble....If it's truly the taste, drink alcohol free! But it's not. This is probably where I have the most problems with the arguments people are putting forth: they are not being truthful, in my opinion. If alcohol didn't produce the physical effect it does, it wouldn't mean a darn thing...It doesn't even taste that good (that's probably why, when I do drink, it's an ice cream concoction with chocolate syrup and stuff). I'm so weary over this because, no matter what, people are still going to say "If I can die, blah blah blah..." and "You need to learn to tolerate it, so start earlier..." when they are avoiding stating the obvious reasons: getting wasted! And maybe this is exactly why you need to mature emotionally a bit more before you can legally get you hands on the stuff.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but given the fact that I am from a country where some provinces have a drinking age of 18 (Quebec forsure, and I believe one other province does too) and the rest of the country is 19, I thought I'd chime in.

I'd be curious to know whether or not there have been comparitive studies between our countries to determine statistical differences between consumption, over consumption, underage drinking and drinking and driving stats in the U.S. and Canada. I think it's absolutely riduclous to go through college and be underage. You're legal to vote, you're legal to enlist and you're in your undergrad, but you can't have a drink? I completely agree that some kids drink cause it's deviant and illegal and therefore more interesting. You don't see a bunch of kids joyriding cars at 15. It's just not a rampant problem. Why? Because the driving age is completely reasonable. But it's completely hypocrital that the drinking age is as high as it is while the age of enlistment is so much lower.

The drinking age in Canada IS 19 and I don't really think we're a corrupt and uncontrollable society! I honestly think the drinking age is more an attempt to regulate what is deemed to be accepatable moral behaviour, rather than an attempt to control crime and deviance.

When there's a dispute about stuff on this board, there is also a lot of throwing around of statistics. I don't really listen to them, as they are usually manipulated, by whatever agency is publishing the results, to the point where there's little meaning. So, those statistics mean nothing to me. With that in mind, I believe the underage drinking problems, and alcohol-related health problems are still WORSE here in the good old U.S.A. than in Europe. Most of it is our Puritan heritage, like someone said. In Italy, there is no "drinking" age. If two 14-year olds order wine with dinner, they get wine with dinner. No biggie. Usually, the server will monitor their behavior, but that's up to the server. But, when I went out, which was about 3 times/week, who did I see puking behind the bushes, being generally loud and obnoxious and embarassing? AMERICAN COLLEGE STUDENTS, that's whom! :rolleyes:

In response to the "I can die for my country" argument...the keys to the world aren't handed to you at the age of 18. In most cases, you are given more LEGAL accountability for your behavior, but you don't have a lot of the same economic and social priveleges that are afforded to someone slightly younger.

The drinking age is fine where it is. I say that as someone who grew up knowing how to drink responsibly, but saw the consequences of alcohol abuse. I don't think I would have had any more or less to drink on my 18th birthday as I did on my 21st if it had been legal, 'cause at that point drinking wasn't that big a deal. I do have HS classmates, however, whose parents were anti-alcohol, and most of them got booted from college after frosh year due to their alcohol use/bad grades. Oh well.

I still like the idea of 18-20 year olds being allowed to order a drink with their meal (possibly restricted to beer or wine, and possibly also only if their parents are with them), while still not being allowed to buy their own liquor at a package store.

Alcohol was never a big deal in my family. When I was growing up, I always (ever since I can remember) got a glass of wine with dinner when my folks had wine. Obviously, when I was little it was a tiny little cordial glass, then I graduated to half a glass, then a full glass. But I always had at least a taste. My father is a wine connoisseur (ok, wine snob :) ) and he taught me from a young age the differences between various grapes, why you chill white wines, why you let red wines breathe, etc. Most importantly, he taught me to appreciate wine for its taste and for its enhancement of the meal - not as a means to get drunk.

So, sigmagrrl, I have to disagree with your statement: "you want to get drunk and get loose without worrying about getting in trouble....If it's truly the taste, drink alcohol free!" Yes, a lot of people do drink to get drunk; but a lot of people also use alcohol in moderation as an enhancement to their meals or as a way to relax with friends. As for alcohol-free wine, it just doesn't have the subtleties that alcoholic wines have.

I'm taking wine as an example, but the same could be said for beer or hard liquor/mixed drinks. Growing up as I did, I learned to appreciate alcohol as part of a meal - and I still do. This, not the 21 drinking age, is what has made me a responsible drinker.

yuppers
 

I'd like to nominate sigmagirl to spearhead our prohibition initiative in greekdom...hahahah, j/k

Honestly, personal experience and raw emotions make for poor arguments. I come from a family with a long history of alcohol abuse, but does that mean me, my brother or sister (as well as cousins) are going to be future Barney Gumbels? No, definitely not. For my demographic, i drink very rarely. I fully understand the consequences of consumption, and this enlightenment didn't hit me just at 21/19.

Like Gphi2k,
I live in a Ontario with a drinking age of 19, but a short drive across the Ottawa river and we're in Quebec, where beer can be bought at any corner store assuming you look or have proof of being 18. In Ontario there's one of 2 places to purchase alcohol - the LCBO and the Beer Store. The age should be dropped a year, because it's very difficult for underage kids to purchase alcohol otherwise. Mind you, there's probably nothing stopping an underager's older sibling or chum from buying it for them. The point is, one way or another if they really want to, they'll get toasted. Better to get them drinking beer than vodka, or listerine.

One last argument, not everyone who drinks goes out to get completely hammed. After every game and practice on my touch football team, we usually sit back and enjoy one or two beers. It's good times to relax and shoot the #%.

Here's our website: http://www.frigginbeavers.com
more content to follow.

BTW, rudey -
How about some sources on those random numbers?

You talk about confused...

My grandparents raised me in a fundamentalist Christian home where there was no drinking, card playing, dancing, movies on Sunday or even wearing of shorts.

On the other hand, I would go to a family reunion with my mom or dad (who were divorced) and there were kegs and all kinds of other "terrible" things.

At those reunions (which seemed to happen every weekend between the two families), the kids (like me) would make the trip between the adults and the kegs -- and, with the adults tacit approval, take a sip or drink off the foam on the way back. I'm talking young kids here -- eight or ten years old.

So, I liked beer. I don't understand why people who don't enjoy it try to "learn" to like it. Except, they want to be one of the crowd. But I digress. Yet again.

As I moved through high school and college, I drank. But I'll bet I can count on one hand the number of times I've been drunk. So, what does that mean? Nothing necessarily, except that in my case, since I had a fair amount of experience with alcohol, I never really felt I needed to experiment and get blasted all of the time. Maybe, (that's a big word, and I have absolutely no clinical proof) because I started out drinking in moderation at a young age, I built up a tolerance -- or at least understood my limits. Remember, I said "maybe."

IF (another big word), it's true, though, it would seem to me to back up the notion of lowering the drinking age at least some.

In terms of the statistics, as a number of very wise people have pointed out to me, "figures lie and Lyers figure." They're just too easy to manipulate.

So, what's my point? What does this prove? What's my thesus?

Beats me.

It's just a reason for my feeling that it wouldn't hurt to lower the drinking age back to eighteen -- at least for beer. Maybe if it weren't "the forbidden fruit," kids would take one drink, make the famous "stale beer face," yell "Yuck, this is awful!" and go do something else and not "learn to like it."

First I dont give two $hits about "And truthfully, the whole reason people want it to be legal is so that they can not stress about fighting their desires and cravings for this substance." Its legal for many of us on this board, myself included, and I still eant it lowered. Because I believe it should be. Dont tell me why I drink either. You've never even met me, please. Actually I DO enjoy the tast of wine,and often think a nice Riesling is a great compliment to a meal. I also enjoy the smooth flavor of Southern Comfort. And I do both without getting plowed...or even buzzed. When I do wanna get hammered, I do it by drinking beer. I do like the taste of a good hefferviesen.

But i'll make the argument, as I am feeling a bit fiesty today.

Babydoll, when you get a bit older, you wont see the world as much in terms of black and white. There are shades of grey. That will come with age. Just because some fools in a legislature somewhere all voted the same way and created a law, that doesnt make it just. There are unjust laws. And if people didnt complain against unjust laws and work to change them, Rosa Parks would still be riding on the back of the bus.

I'm not sure if saying that the true reason people want to drink alcohol is "you want to get drunk and get loose without worrying about getting in trouble...." That's painting things with a rather large brush, don't you think?

I think that an 18 year old cut-off would make sense. This is around the age when most people either go to college, move out of their parents homes and go to work, or go into the armed services. This is also a time when one could learn how to use alcohol responsibly.

Just wanted to throw this question out though: If the drinking age were to be lowered, what would be the best way of doing it? Should it be a sliding scale, where at first 18 year olds are able to buy products with lower alcohol contents (like it was for DeltAlum), and then build it up to all alcohol products over a period of time? Or should it be just beer and lower alcohol products? All at once?

Collin

Sigmagrrl,

You are correct about one thing. Underage drinking is against the law, and because of that, and for Risk Management purposes, it shouldn't be tolerated in our organizations.

But...

That's one reason I'd like to see the law changed and the drinking age lowered to eighteen.

Several others have pointed this out, and I will repeat it. Not all of us have the addictive personalities that your parents have. I do have some experience with one of our daughters who was using drugs, but has been sober for over two years now. Obviously, I still worry about her.

On the other hand, I drink (although seldom these days), and have for many years.

Please don't tell me what I think tastes good and doesn't. I liked the taste of beer from a very young age. There are wines and liquors I enjoy, and others that I think taste like gasoline -- and won't touch.

And, by the way, you're speaking from a very small experience base. Many of our parents drink, but are not addicted. I don't think that gives you the background or knowledge to dictate to us. There are innumerable medical studies that show a couple of drinks a day are beneficial to your health. There are probably just as many that say the opposite. Hell, my grandfather ate fried red meat pretty much every day for every one of his 98 plus years. Personally, I think as long as you do things in moderation, you'll probably be OK.

I feel badly for your unfortunate experience -- but it doesn't happen that way to the vast majority of us.

As someone pointed out, don't paint everyone with the same brush.

Let's try to be just a little less self-righteous.

I'm Used to Being the Soul Voice.....
 

I never said anything I think or feel applies to everyone or anyone on this board. I probably do think in black and white, we all do on certain issues. But that doesn't mean I can't be persuaded to think another way. That's how arguements are won and lost. Someone mentioned something about a law that let's you order one drink only at a restaurant if you are with your parents. Not a bad little idea....Could be a good way to start with the lowering of the drinking age, if that dream becomes a reality. I think in shades of the experiences I have had: too many sisters (1 is too many for me) that got sexually assaulted when under the influence, too many people who have a few drinks after that great prom that don't wake up the next day because of driving drunk with an underage friend. It does worry me that the audience that reads this (potential Greeks, Greeks, independents, etc) sees so many pro alcohol posts. And again, I never said that there ISN'T ANYONE who actually doesn't like the taste, I said I can't believe that a majority of people would want it lowered so that they can get into that rockin' wine and cheese party next weekend...Seems as if others here are just as guilty of letting THEIR personal experience paint their opinion, so don't say it's just me. That's what an opinion comes from a lot of the time: experience....