Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

I sent you a response, but your inbox is full! Oh well, in a nutshell: THANKS!!! I think GLO is an appropriate term for all of us and then General, Professional, Recognition, and Honor when we mean specifically those. Not everyone will be happy, but at least those terms are inclusive of all the groups we really are referring to.

Re: non-social GLO's
 

Maybe this was an issue on my campus. When I was Vp of IFC, I was in charge of publicity. We were having a speaker come and present. All the student orgs were invited. I went to put up a poster in the galleria of the Arts building - outreach, to be inclusive of groups that might have been overlooked or excluded in the past. My poster, (which measured exactly 24 x 36 inches) lasted for 2 days in the arts building before the greek advisor got a phone call from the division director of the department of music, telling him "you greeks stay outta our building. We dont want you all in here. Leave us alone. No more of your posters in here either." :eek: I never did figure out what that was about...

So at the time (3 years ago) it seemed to me that the musical greeks had no interest in building bridges, and we left it at that. The interesign part is that now when you walk through the Arts building the SAI letters are right where my poster once hung. I dig the irony.

My university is pretty political, and they have this wierd thing where everyone wants to feel involved and have input. Instead of just hanging the poster, I should have made a meeting withthe division director, and presidents of the music orgs, explained what we wanted to do and invite their orgs to co-host the event with us. :rolleyes: I tend to be way more pragmatic than all that, and found all that stuff silly. Thats why I left student leadership roles on my campus. You spent more time kissing ass than for the actual event. I did learn this is how many businesses work, and am glad for the experience but dont have time or energy for all that junk.

I do wish we could all work together to achieve our common goals. We could find potential recruits in both camps, and the larger, more visible presence could only be a benefit for the both of us.

Now thats my $23.49 ;)

That's an interesting point, TG. I guess the only thing that prevents me from standing up and saying "let's go PHC!" is I wonder how many PHC PNMs would be interested in sorority with such definite musical aims. For purpose of discussion, here are the Purposes of SAI:

• TO FORM chapters of women college students and alumnae who have a sincere interest in music.
• TO UPHOLD the highest standards of music.
• TO FURTHER the development of music in America and throughout the world.
• TO GIVE inspiration and encouragement to members.
• TO ORGANIZE the cultural life of Sigma Alpha Iota members as a contributing factor to their educational growth.
• TO SUPPORT the ideals and goals of the member's Alma Mater;
• TO ADHERE to the highest standards of citizenship in school, community and fraternity life.

....and the Mission Statement and Vision:

"The Vision of Sigma Alpha Iota, International Music Fraternity, is to be recognized throughout the world as the foremost fraternity that:

• Supports and encourages women musicians of all ages, races, and nationalities
• Supports and promotes successful and innovative educational programs in music for all stages of life
• Cultivates excellence in musical performance
• Promotes programs and activities that stress the love and importance of music in our lives
• Recognizes technological advances in the field of music
• Dedicates financial resources that ensure the continuation of programs necessary to support the objectives of the fraternity in perpetuity
• Has as its members people who exemplify professional and ethical behavior in the spirit of the Sigma Alpha Iota founders."

To add to all that, SAI is open to women who "demonstrate a sincere interest in music", have a GPA of at least 2.5, have taken at least 1 credit hour in music, as well as the usual "intangibles."

Personally, I think your average, non-musically-inclined PNM might be turned off by all that. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts, people?

Actually, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia is a social fraternity, as is Sigma Alpha Iota.

Phi Mu Alpha was founded in 1898 as a social fraternity, albeit a social fraternity geared toward men studying or interested in music. During the mid-twentieth century, the Fraternity began to act more like a professional fraternity and to consider itself such, although it never required that members be music majors or minors. (There are chapters now with no music majors or minors in them.) This shift was in full swing by the 60’s and 70’s, although the Fraternity always kept a foot in the “social” side. In many ways, it acted more like a “social” then a “professional.”

Then came Title IX, which required single-sex professional fraternities to go co-ed. Two of the music sororities, Mu Phi Epsilon and Delta Omicron, did just that. Sigma Alpha Iota sought and received from the federal Department of Education a determination that it is a “social” sorority, and thus stayed all-female. Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia decided in the early 80’s to place itself firmly on the “social” side as well; it also received a ruling from the DoE that it is a social fraternity. Most “professional” references were removed from all Fraternity documents and publications at that time, although there is still some “clean up” going on.

Phi Mu Alpha has not joined the North-American Interfraternity Conference, although I understand that consideration has been given to doing that. Nor has it ever amended the Constitutional prohibition on membership in any other music fraternity, as opposed to any other general fraternity. Individual chapters can decide on their own whether to join their campus’s interfraternity council (or similar group) and be bound by such things as rush rules. My understanding is that many have done so and more are exploring the idea. Other chapters operate much like they always have, somewhat to themselves. On some campuses, then, Phi Mu Alpha still looks somewhat like other professional fraternities. On other campuses, Phi Mu Alpha is virtually indistinguishable from the other social fraternities - except for all the singing. ;) In any event, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia is a social fraternity.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Yeah, I tried to clean out my inbox (it's not my fault that I'm popular). I agree completely. Afterall, I never knew (under reading this thread) that organizations such as APO and music fraternities even wanted to be considered in the same light as other GLOs. So, you learn something everyday and as soon as we think we have a term to describe all, there's something new.


You can send me a PM if you like---I have told my loyal fans to cut back, so my box should be empty ;)

I do know of at least one chapter of Sinfonia that has joined the local IFC and participate in rush just like every other IFC chapter on campus. Granted their numbers are highly musical, but like has been stated about SAI, not everyone is a music major. My roommate is a Sinfonian and a film major and his old roommate was a drama major.

The school I am attending now has a small greek system and we could stand some of the "social/special interest" groups becoming active. I think it would bennifit all of the greeks.

TG

My View on it...
 

At my school, Gamma Sig is cool with most of the greeks on campus. But it certainly wasn't like that in the beginning when I brought it on the campus. It was expected because we do have the lines, the calls, the handsigns, and nationally my sorority doesn't operate this way (only a few GSS chapters do). I knew going in that some people's eybrows would raise, and I was ready for the comments. However, we just did our service and respected the greeks on the campus, and we earned theirs in time.
We participate in certain events (not Greek Week) when invited and we also do the same with our events.

I think it just varies from campus to campus-there are greeks on my campus who can't understand why I have to say "We're not greek" in the traditional sense. So instead I say, "We just don't belong to a council, but we can still support".

Nationally, Gamma Sig cannot join ANY greek council on that respective campus UNLESS it's necessary for that chapter to function on that campus. Gamma Sig actually did seek to affiliate with PHC in the 60's, but decided not to because the sorority wanted to keep membership open to everyone, which they couldn't do because of Rush regulations/membership regulations.

I feel that even though I'm a "service" greek (IMO, everyone that's greek is just as committed to serving as I am), I'm still greek like everyone else. I take pride in my sorority and the things we do and have done for others, just like every other greek does.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Umm...not really. We like being unique, however we do want to be taken seriously.

Yes, even APO wanted to be a "social" Greek
 

Chaos,

From a LEGAL standpoint, the NPHC greeks are considered social in that they are single gender AND you cannot join another NPHC greek org. Be grateful that you are social on that aspect because someone could state that because you are not a social org, you have to be co-ed and that could start TROUBLE for your org (although that would be highly unlikely)

But yes, APO did try to be a social org for Title 9 purposes

Check it out

[/B][/QUOTE]July 1976 APO Board minutes

Keep Greek Chat postin'



[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChaosDST
[B]Yeah, I tried to clean out my inbox (it's not my fault that I'm popular). I agree completely. Afterall, I never knew (under reading this thread) that organizations such as APO and music fraternities even wanted to be considered in the same light as other GLOs. So, you learn something everyday and as soon as we think we have a term to describe all, there's something new.


You can send me a PM if you like---I have told my loyal fans to cut back, so my box should be empty ;)

That's an interesting question. After all, Triangle (engineering) and FarmHouse (agriculture) have managed to thrive in the NIC, and they have a limited focus sort of like SAI. But I think there has always been more room for diversity in the NIC ... after all, one of the NPHC fraternities is a member, and that would never happen in the NPC, because the NPHC sororities would have to sign on to participate in formal rush and other sorts of things. So I could easily see Phi Mu Alpha joining NIC, but SAI joining NPC would be more difficult.

Not saying we wouldn't want you if you were interested! But membership in the NPC involves a lot of rules and regs and it would mean some big changes for SAI.

On my campus, service and academic GLOs don't have anything to do with the social GLOs. There are a ton of academic ones, along with APO. They do their own things. I know that Phi Sigma Pi has parties and such, but other than that, I have no idea what they do socially.

Any organization with a Greek-lettered name is a GLO, but the term, "Fellow Greek" is something I only use for NPHC, IFC, or NPC organizations. As for the service/social issue, DST is a social sorority which performs community service projects. The distinction is professional vs. social because both perform public service activities (or at least they can if they choose to.) Social is not meant to demean or take away from our service activities, but rather refers to the means of securing membership - i.e. it is not open to all women and men in a particular field, major, etc. It doesn't mean we sit around and party all the time - the relationship that we have sister-to-sister and sister-to-organization is just as significant as the work we do, so in that light being a "social organization" sets us apart from people that are brought together based on their interest in a particular field or discipline - they are more like clubs to me, albeit clubs with greek-lettered names.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

? How is that in reference to what you quoted from me?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

You said something about that you never knew that APO wanted to be seen in the same light as social GLO's. I replied, "not really, we just want to be taken seriously".

This is why we make the distinction.
 

Quoted from www.nphchq.org (I did my best to include exerpts without taking them out of their originial context):

"Undergraduate chapters of NPHC affiliate organizations began to spread to major research universities admitting Blacks and to major historically Black colleges in the South. Graduate chapters were birthed in cities across the US as civic and service organizations, due to blatant racism prohibiting African Americans from participating in general civic organizations within their communities after college graduation..."

"The need to form campus-based councils to represent NPHC affiliate organizations is not motivated by a "separatist" philosophy. The establishment of councils assists in maintaining a distinct identity as "service based organizations," as opposed to organizations that may be strictly social in nature; NPHC, Inc. does not advocate a disassociation from NIC, NPC, or NALFO organizations on college campuses. It should also be noted that member organizations have never restricted membership solely to African Americans. They have, however, developed a distinctive African American style in their activities both social and philanthropic."


Soror: I don't think that the term social has negative connotations at all times. The reason why I was making the distinction is because a distinction has ALWAYS been made. I was always taught (and read) that our organizations are "service" organizations. This is not to say that the "social" organizations do not do service. However, HBGLOs and the NPHC choose (even today) to make the distinction.


Much Love