I'm not really sure where you were trying to go with this thread deltalum, but as an alum of the university in question i think i can definately provide some further/personal insight on these chapters.

As far as the Sigma Chi chapter's loss of charter is concerned, it was long overdue. During the four years that i was an active the chapter was suspended twice(once for a hazing incident, and another for the swastika incident mentioned in the article) they just got their charter back in January. This was a chapter of about 30-50 members, most of whom seemed to fit your stereotypical 'frat boy' image, and while there were a few great guys in this group, they were outnumbered by the jackasses. However, their nationals seemed to do nothing about this, each time they lost their charter no members were removed, there was no "spring cleaning" and each time they came back just as obnoxious as before, with the same troublemaking members. The suspension did not faze them.

I personally think the university did the best they could considering they seemingly had little to no support/help from the national organization in reprimanding the chapter, but maybe that is more of the issue at hand, is why is it that the nationals are not concerned(is that where you were trying to go with this?)

I know DeltAlum doesn't agree with this statement, but I do, and the reason I do is because it has happened on my campus. One of my sisters was raped by an independent and everything was kept hush hush and swept under the rug. Then this year some girl accused one of the Sig Ep brothers of raping her and the police came down to the house, arrested him, and threw him in jail without even hearing his side of the story. There IS a greek bias. People are always looking for some sensational news, and if it deals with a greek organization, it is. Why this independent was not thrown in jail or ANYTHING boggles my mind. Why do that to the brother of the fraternity if you ar not going to do it to every other person accused of being a rapist? Because it's hot news, that's why.

This could be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. That's like saying "Don't walk down the worst street in town, because you deserve to get shot then." These women don't make a choice to get raped! If a woman at the party has too much to drink, the brothers working at the party should cut her off, call her a cab, and send her on her way, not rape her. I'm not blaming the entire fraternity, b/c it's the actions of one brother, but here's something we were told on the day we took the Initiation vows of Delta Phi Epsilon. "While you will always be an individual person, you will also be thought of as a member of this sorority. Your conduct should reflect the values and ideals which we set forth. We don't ask you to change, for we saw these ideals within you at recruitment. We ask you to be sure to think before acting, and remember, your actions reflect on this organization as a whole."

If you can't understand those words, you shouldn't be a part of the Greek System. That may sound harsh, but it's the truth.

DeltAlum, I agree with you. That article had more positive stuff in it than 99% of the articles that were written. But, as ktsnake said, the greek system is growing, and maybe now that we're all cracking down on the "rogue" chapters and cleaning house, we can build chapters we'd all be proud of.

First of all, this happened to me before I joined the greek system. I am in my third year of university and just initiated at the end of march.
Secondly, when I wrote this, I said that some times things like this happen out of the blue, when they can't be avoided. I'm not asking people not to walk to down the streets at night, but use a little common sense. Don't walk alone at night, stay where it's well lit, etc, etc.
You're right, the brothers who are hosting parties should look out for their guests, they should be responsible hosts.
None of you seem to understand what I am trying to say here. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, for their own behaviour. Those throwing parties should be responsible hosts, just like the guests should be responsible. We need to stop playing the victims and take a proactive stance on this problem. We need to join together to create fun and safe environments for everybody. The national organizations, need to take an active role in punishing their chapters. it's obvious that just taking away a chapter's charter isn't solving the problem. So yes, the question is why aren't the national's doing anyhing about it. And Maybe the schools should be dealing directly with the nationals instead of the chapter when problems like this arise.

I don't think it's good to play the blame game because both parties were equally responsible for their own actions. In order to drink responsibly, people should make sure they are in charge of their bodies at all times. At the same time, males and females need to respect others and not take advantage of their intoxicated state.

Even if they had permission, they shouldn't do something with someone who's drunk.

The female is to blame because she allowed herself to get too drunk to defend herself and the male is to blame because he couldn't respect the rights of another person.

Both sides need to be looked at.

But I do agree, I think there is a bias against Greek related incidents. With an independent, police just want to protect the lives of the innocent and not humiliate them publicly, but when it involves Greek they go all out. Maybe they are thinking that if they di it enough times, the Greek system will be eliminated and then their work will be cut in half. Who really knows what they're thinking.

I don't understand what is so difficult about this issue. Follow the laws set forth by the state that you live in. Follow the rules set up by your campus and fraternity or sorority. Do these things, and you don't have trouble.

As for this whole rape issue...1) at my campus, greek or not, rapes were known about by the student body and reported on. 2) if a woman sees a man completely wrecked, can't talk/walk and such, and could easily be taken advantage of, she should call him a cab and send him home, just like the fraternity brothers should do for a woman they see. I don't understand what's so hard to see in that!!! Have a little respect for each other for the love of pete (I don't know who pete is :))!

Finally, for James...bitter much?!? Come on, you can't possibly believe that a woman at a party who has too much to drink and is not really in control of herself is preying on some guy do you?!?! I'm not saying the guy is evil, but he's a total asshole if he rapes her in that state! Plain and simple.

Rape and Sexual Assault are serious crimes that need to be dealt with.

However . . .

You seem to equate Drunken/inebriated/alcohol involved Sex with Rape. There is a huge difference between a girl who is drunk and feeling less inhibited that chooses to sleep with a guy (and maybe regrets it in the morning), versus a girl that is passing out on her feet. Many women that are making these arguments seem to never differentiate between the two, or see no difference at all.

Many of the cases you are talking about involve women that were certainly not passing out, but had to face the proverbial walk of shame the next day and regretted doing it (especially if the boy never calls her).

Further, Rape and Sexual Assault, are serious legal charges that need to be proved. It is unfair to use them to describe situations that are more indicative of regret and bad judgement.


I see no need for me and other males to feel some universal guilt and walk on egg shells for crimes that we have not committed OR for the regret of some women for their own actions.

So please stop trying to force men in general to wear a garment of guilt and shame for the evil or misjudgements of others.

Have a a nice day!:)

James--

Nobody asked you to wear a garment of shame. And I think there is a big difference between a girl who wakes up the next morning thinking, oh I f'ed up and the girl who says no, but is too drunk to fight a guy off. I'm not talking about walks of shame. I'm talking about a girl who is too drunk to know what's going on. If that's me generalizing, so be it. I still think no means no, and that if you, as a man, can see a woman is too drunk to be able to really make an educated answer, you shouldn't sleep with her, period.

Just say NO to unwanted sexual advances . . .

Also: Do try and gouge his eyes or bite his ear off or knee him in the groin . . . at least it will leave bruises for the court case.

It won't stop a flat out RAPE . . . but it will stop most cases of acquaintance or date rape.

Rest assured if a bunch of guys, even guys I know, that tried to runa train on drunken James, would find themselves well enough marked the next day that there would be NO doubt that it was a forced situation . . .

Also, feminists, and those infected by political correctness, are constantly requiring males to be emasculated and walk on egg shells for the crimes of our gender.

well you would be wrong.

Rape story #1. The DA in the CU gang rape case has already decided not to pursue rape charges vs the football players. Gee what a surprise.



Rape story #2. The first half dozen rapes committed by Troy Graves, the serial rapist/murderer never even made the papers.

You dont really believe that do you? If someone from the math club committed a crime, the fact that that person was in the math club would never even be mentioned in the story. If that same person was in a GLO then the GLO would suddenly be put on trial.

On my campus (and probably every other campus in America) there a hundreds of alcohol citations given out every year but you will never read a front page article on any of them unless it involves a GLO.

Ya know Max,

My style is not argumentative like yours, but...

In these cases, you would be wrong. Read the entire thread carefully.

1) Troy Graves first several rapes were in Philadelphia. He was not identified until after the first several rapes in Ft. Collins -- but the story was covered as a series of rapes near campus anyway. You can't identify a suspect until you have one. In addition, coverage depends on locality as much as anything. A murder, for instance, is much more likely to make the paper in Ft. Collins than in Detroit -- or even Denver. It would be more likely to be covered in some smaller town than Ft. Collins.

2) The CU comments were about news coverage -- the story was covered and the athletic department, football team and the university took their lumps -- even though they handled the situation fairly forthrightly. It makes absolutely no difference whether the DA decides to prosecute or not. That's a different story and not what the comments were about. When the media decided to cover the story of the RAPES -- the DA hadn't made any decision AT ALL. Two entirely separage issues. BOTH were covered. Also mentioned by name yesterday was one of the recruits allegedly at the party AND the name of the high school he attends. It happens to be the same school my son attends. What does that have to do with the story?

3) Damn right I believe it. If an incident happens on property owned by or on the way to or from ANY organization (even the grocery store), that organization will often be named. For instance, "The woman was on her way home from buying a Pepsi at 7-11 at the corner of 17th and North Street when she was accousted by Joe Blow, age 22, a local iron worker." Tell me you haven't read comments like that. Where are the Greek letters there? And the alleged assailant wasn't even a 7-11 employee.

Max, sometimes I think you're a little selective in your reading and comprehension. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, as long as you don't argue half the point. Or the wrong point.

Anyway, as I tried to say before, this thread isn't about rape, or media coverage, or alcohol or anything else. It's about obeying the rules and taking responsibility for your chapter's action.

If it weren't for the personalized "attack" style of your response, I wouldn't have replied at all.

OKAY, Rape is most consistent with a male haveing sex with a female. That is a correct assumption even though it has happened the other way!

What ever way it is done, it does not matter!

Part of the problem is that when someone comes on to an individual and semi offers it all feel it is communial consent!

Notice, I did not say which way!

Anyway can be said to be RAPE if there is a reason or not!

I knew a Police Officer that was having sex with a women in his car many times consenciouly. Her Husband caught them and she yelled Rape. He lost his job , went to prison, and his life as he knew it.
Everyone who was a COP new he was having sex with her!

If a women is haveing sex with a man and says NO and He does, that is Rape.
Yes many women intice men to have sex with them and do this!

How many pretty men have you seen and how many pretty women do you know!

Do the She's want to have sex with them, or do many men who see a pretty woman want t o have sex with them!

Excuse me, but, if I wanted to get a lady drunk and hump her while she is passed pout is like humping a sack of Taters!

Introducing a drug is Criminal! Is it small peter or small mind or both?:confused: