GreekChat.com Forums - advice for appealing probation / termination decision

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue? (Post 2298262)

Certainly, there are more instances of chapters without advisors than there should be, but I still don't understand fighting so hard to remain a part of something where you're not wanted.

She's not fighting to stay a part of the chapter (where she's not wanted); she's fighting to stay a part of of the organization. Perhaps she thinks she will have a better experience as an alumna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912 (Post 2298289)

She's not fighting to stay a part of the chapter (where she's not wanted); she's fighting to stay a part of of the organization. Perhaps she thinks she will have a better experience as an alumna.

Yes, but in the meantime she has to live with women who don't want her around. It wouldn't be the choice that I would make.

hello, i am removing my comments because i feel this issue is resolved. thank you all for your help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue? (Post 2298292)

Yes, but in the meantime she has to live with women who don't want her around. It wouldn't be the choice that I would make.

well, if you're wondering, my sorority house is not residential.

furthermore, i don't think i've yet made a point of mentioning that even though i've had more than a reasonable amount of conflict with quite a few girls in the chapter, that doesn't mean that there isn't a considerable group who is in support of me, and others who are neutral and still nice to me and stuff.

so it's not like i absolutely hate everyone and everyone absolutely hates me. there have just been divides and cliques in our chapter, which have lead to issues, and the lack of advising lets these personal issues or "girl drama" as the anon advisor said get involved in chapter business

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinksequins (Post 2298214)

Please pay attention. People have tried to be patient with you and provide advice but you insist on doing it your way by, in your words, "being right". That is an approach that will fail (without very clear facts to the contrary) .

Hitting you with a proverbial ton of bricks has not seemed to register with you. Perhaps your chapter has also gotten fatigued with trying to address things with you? Your constructive options are -- as was pointed out -- contrition or early alumna status.

i know, you're totally right. it is a flaw of mine that i come off as argumentative, defensive, or ignorant to what other people are saying.

it's unintentional, and i'm working to improve it, but yes, unfortunately i do have difficulties communicating with others because usually their thinking and my interpretation are not on the same page.

and you're right, i will admit that this has lead to frustration of members in disciplinary discussions with me. it's definitely a hurtful struggle because i try so so hard and i always have good intentions, but a lot of times my intentions are misinterpreted.

all i can do is keep trying to improve on it, wish there was a quick fix that could instantly solve this problem but unfortunately i don't think there is lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by als463 (Post 2298240)

Why? Were you initially on probation for posting something on social media that upset people in your chapter?

no, but i don't think it's appropriate to discuss the details of things that are confidential.

i say i've learned this lesson mostly because whether it be through social media, the phone, face-to-face contact, or someone eavesdropping, things you say can get out, be misconstrued, and used against you.

i used to be too naive and trusting, but i've learned that the best policy when it comes to secrets and confidential information is to trust no one and just keep it confidential. its not worth the risk

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetheart272 (Post 2298293)

yes, this is definitely my thinking. while i know you all realize inside i have feelings that certain allegations against me were wrong, even if am fully 100% guilty of an offense worthy of punishment on the termination level… that is tough to swallow because termination is a PERMANENT dismissal. even if i was a terrible PR risk for the chapter, beating people up or part time job at a strip club, etc… however bad as you can imagine… that doesn't mean that later in life i won't be more responsible and better suited for membership.

there's lots of little old ladies who really are active for their lifetime. i feel it's very unfair that one incident (whether it is worthy of strict punishment or not) could mean that i couldn't even participate in alumna teas 50 years from now. do you really think i'd still be a crazy PR risk as a 70 year old lady?

i know that's an extreme example, but i'm exaggerating to bring light to the fact that people often change throughout the years. i don't think mistakes you make in college should limit you from doing things later in life as an adult.

i very much want to become an alumna member. i know a lot of people might think of this as ridiculous, but it sounds very appealing to me. i live in an area with several active alumna chapters. furthermore, even though the collegiate experience in a sorority is different (at least in mine i've found it revolves around partying and alcohol) and there are things like that that won't be replicated in an alumna chapter, but the parts about my sorority that i care about the most are the fundraising endeavors for our philanthropy, camaraderie working together on various projects, and helping others (such as younger collegiate members one day) are the focus of those alumna groups, and i would think that the sorority would want to take advantages of someone who wants very much to help out, volunteer, and pay dues

News flash: you are an adult at age 18, legally. You are now going to be paying expensive tuition in the school of life. The prodigal son is a story in the Bible. It doesn't play out often or well in real life. Prisons are full of people who sing a similar song. We aren't talking about rehabilitation. We're talking about direct consequences for not following rules in a voluntary membership organization.

Reminder: it isn't one incident we're talking about here. Makes me question if you yourself didn't participate in the "partying and alcohol" aspects of your chapter that you disparaged, above. I haven't seen anyone brought up for termination for spending too much time at the library.

I gave you a clear option. You don't like it. You're still talking about "it's not fair." We are not your national leadership/decision makers, who hold your future in their hands.

The wise course and path of least resistance is to resign, gracefully. Wait a year or two and petition for reinstatement, if that is an option in your organization. It probably is, but I don't know for sure, unless you are a Theta. Give things time to settle down a bit. If there are no alumnae advisors present to recall the specifics of your case (as you previously stated, there haven't been any advisors whatsoever - am I right?) so much the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue? (Post 2298226)

The whole thing sounds fishy to me, but I believe that the early alumna ship has not only sailed, but it was never in port to begin with.

What I don't understand is why the OP would be fighting so hard to remain a part of a group that has so clearly indicated that she is not wanted. Whether it be for legitimate reasons or not, I don't get it. Do you know how powerful it is for a chapter to have to vote to terminate a member? I've been involved with my sorority for over twenty years, and I've seen it exactly once.

yes, it's unfortunate in many ways, but just because i've had conflicts with certain girls in the house (who unfortunately tended to be the ones in charge), but that doesn't mean i don't have strong bonds and good friendships or at least kind relationships with many of the other members.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonadvisor (Post 2298249)

Hate to do this, but I have to go anonymous for this one. I am a current regular of GC, but I don't want to throw my chapter under the bus.

As a current advisor of a chapter, I have seen my share of girl drama. I have seen the chapter not follow proper disciplinary procedure. I have found out after the fact that a member was put on probation for the same offense that other members committed without being put on probation. The one who was put on probation had a history with one of the exec members, and that history swayed opinions.

I have seen a member almost be recommended for termination for offenses that are nowhere near termination level offenses. Had the chapter not had an advisor, they would have recommended her for termination, because it was hard for them to step back and see the big picture. Also, in that case, there were some very strong personalities who voiced in favor of termination, and everyone else was basically going along with it because they didn't want to fight over it. The others didn't really agree, but didn't want to argue.

There are a lot of chapters out there without advisory support. It's hard for some of us to remember that at times. In those chapters without advisory support, I firmly believe that the "girl drama" issues get disproportionate attention in the disciplinary process.

There is a reason our organizations require final oversight from a national council. I believe those women take termination very seriously, and I believe they will read a letter that is sincere.

That being said, OP, I wholly agree with the other advice you have been given about not laying blame on anyone but yourself. Own up to whatever it is that you have done. Acknowledge the changes you have made. Throwing shade on the chapter makes you look like the source of the drama. Ain't nobody got time for that. :)

thank you for this post. it's good to know that i'm not the only one in the world who's had this struggle, lol.

those first stories sounded very similar to mine, but unfortunately there wasn't an advisor in my case.

i feel like the reason i'm making such a fuss about this and having a hard time accepting accusations and consequences is mostly because of that.

had all the proceedings of my discipline followed procedure properly, been supervised by an expert/unbiased party like an advisor, and i had been explained what the issues were with valid evidence and adequate detail, it'd still suck to be in trouble, but i'd accept it because i felt like i deserved it since the policies were followed and i got punished, fair and square.

i guess its too hard for me to swallow my pride and be like "yup i was guilty of everything, totally responsible, they're totally right" when i know for a fact my case was misrepresented and included accusations of things i didn't do.

if i was guilty of something, i'd take the blame. but when you don't agree your guilty, it's hard not to fight back

If there are several alumnae chapters in your area, I will say I'm confused as to how your chapter is doing without advisors, unless you mean "your area" in the sense of where you live which is far from your school.

You seem to have a very rosy view of your sorority apart from your chapter and it doesn't seem like you're being realistic.

Holy multiple posting, Batman!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetheart272 (Post 2298293)

i feel it's very unfair that one incident (whether it is worthy of strict punishment or not) could mean that i couldn't even participate in alumna teas 50 years from now. do you really think i'd still be a crazy PR risk as a 70 year old lady? .... i don't think mistakes you make in college should limit you from doing things later in life as an adult.

YES YES YES the things you do in college absolutely DO limit your options and opportunities in later life! Your actions at this point in your life can easily follow you F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

All I keep seeing over & over in your many posts is ME and I, what YOU think. I guess it needs to be said more pointedly that it does not matter what YOU think is fair or unfair. Sorry, I know that you disagree, but that is life. You don't get to choose what is considered fair by other people.

Sorority membership is a privilege, both as an active and as an alumna. If your chapter has gone as far as to vote to terminate your membership, I am afraid that "the tribe has spoken."

in reply to everyone who's posted, it has been really kind of you to offer your opinions and information.

this is a complicated situation in which i didn't have any reliable resources to turn to for advice and feedback, so i am grateful that so many of you have come forward and provided that for me.

it seems the consensus is that my odds aren't good, but i guess i'll have to wait it out and see if they will see the good in me and all i am willing to offer. i feel that my dedication, perseverance, and passion would make me a great attribute to this sorority. hopefully things will work out the way they were meant to be.

thanks again everybody, perhaps i'll keep you posted if you'd like

Do check out the possibility of early alumna status. It could be a quiet way to put the entire matter to rest. Keep that concept in your back pocket for the work world also. Many people's rewsignation is a face-saving way to avoid being fired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinksequins (Post 2298330)

I don't think early alumna status will work in this situation. I get the impression that the entire chapter does not want her there after she made a mistake. Usually, early alumna status is given to people in extreme circumstances or circumstances that are beyond their control. I know chapters that absorb local sororities and give the original members early alumna status or chapters that allow early alumna status to members in programs that go beyond 4 or 5 years. It can also depend upon a person's major and if they are in something like pre-pharmacy that, at a school near me, does not offer a B.S. but, sends a student straight to graduate school after year 2.

OP, you kind of made something that was "confidential" into something public by coming on a public site. I say this because I've watched people who are being considered for termination speak up on social media sites and further smear the name of their sisters without mentioning school or organization. Once you look at their profile, it is easy to determine what school or organization to which they belong.