fuzzy,

ok, lets not make assumptions. i never said i was hazed. i was merely commenting that this father was loyal to his fraternity in his undergrad, which means it couldn't have been all bad. in fact, the original post i'm referring didn't state he was hazed but that they did a lot of crazy things as brothers. i don't care what group you are in, therea re always gonna be guys who are a little crazy and guys who live by the rules, and guys who are somewhere in between. i don't understand why when people graduate and become responsible in the "real world", they throw their hands up and say, "what silliness." this dad insists on being bieased against the entire greek world, because of the life he CHOSE to lead while he was greek.

I agree fully - I think most would as well. How can you concentrate on pledge education - whether you haze like hellcats, or not at all - if every event is surrounded by a shroud of "OH MY GOD WILL WE GET IN TROUBLE?!?"

I don't think you can. Thus, I'll agree with the OP - hazing oversensitivity, whether from external or even from internal sources, can cause serious problems for us greeks.

Well, I almost didn't post becauseI'm amazed people have these opinions still. Also I was just posting an opinion of my husband's- the after posts were very uncool. It disappoints me and others- others who probably just read & don't post. Worst of all, it also disappoints non-Greek parents who are checking out fraternities. Who knows what assumptions are made by the parents about various fraternities based on what members obviously still think, not the horror stories. Incidently, I am impressed by Delt Alum and his fraternity. He represents them well. Some good values being taught there , obviously.
I disagree with Teke4life, also please don't assume my husband wasn't hazed, because he was. And a friend had his nose broken. And I guess if NOT wanting to have his own sons hazed as he was makes him " bad" or "disloyal", then whatever!! ....That is some messed-up thinking. With comments like that you actually are changing my mind as I read your posts. Maybe my husband is right-nothing has changed fraternity-wise. And if there are some bad guys in the fraternity, GET THEM OUT!!!! But my husband had a bad experience, obviously. Basically, he joins a frat at age 18. Out of 80 guys, there are maybe 20 evil guys. There were 60 great guys that he didn't want to walk away from & that we still are friends with. We are not friends with the bad ones and never were. So he stuck with it. Also, don't assume my husband was a drinker-and a hypocrite to boot. Why am I even explaining this?
Actually, "the Flag Pole Treatment" is hazing. On our campus, the guys involved could have been arrested. For instance, as a DG alumna adviser, we would never allow the collegians to do that. Nor would they want to. I was never hazed in any way. It was a wonderful experience. And, of course, that's why I'm very over-involved today!
I also disagree that most feel hazing oversensitivity is killing Greeks. If that is so, then why have many, many sororities & fraternities made rulings already? A lot of people had to decide on that. I am liable for my girls in DG-I don't want to have to explain anything bad to their parents. They feel peace of mind because they know all 13 of us( yes! 13 advisers for 52 collegians!) are watching over their babies. I would have no problem entrusting my 2 daughters to them. You wouldn't believe the red tape we go through for parties for these girls: at least 2 alumnae present, 3rd party vendor, lists of the 21 year olds with driver's licence attached,etc. But it's worth it especially if I don't get sued & some poor collegian dies. I want that for my sons, too.

Right after my daughter pledged, she was in a car wreck (they ended up in the lake for those familiar with LSU). That night, the next day, throughout the week, the actives showered her with attention, her big took off WORK to check on her. That show of love and support from girls who barely knew her was the experiece that cemented her love for her future sisters. Initiation is imminent, and she is going into their ritual with the ultimate understanding of what sisterhood means because she experienced it and on her campus, DG lives it!

JAM
 

I tried to PM you but your box is full. What happened? I have seen a lot of people, sober and in daylight, missing the curve by Theta.

After a DRY (hmmm) mixer a fraternity boy drove her and a pledge sister home in a CONVERTABLE! He just took the curve too fast on a slightly wet turn. Car flipped everyone walked away OK and he sent her a HUGE bouquet of roses. (Probably wanted to avoid
a lawsuit. Or was it pure charm...)

We are Fraternity Men . . . caps included:) lol

James,

Speak for yourself! Those of us with my "seniority" don't mind being called a boy every once in a while.

Just kidding.

Convertables are more dangerous. Why can't the kid just be a gentleman. Maybe he liked her and thought he should take a chance. Roses are not get well soon flowers. They imply romance. Unless they were white roses. Those imply death. Ooo. That would be creepy. Were the roses red or white?

Billy, I forgot to ask! All she said was they were beautiful and the fragrance filled her room. She has been very lucky since it was the third wreck within a half a year she was in. All three cars were totaled. In two she ended up in water (Bayou and lake) the third, she was in a culvert. She does NOT have a car at school since two of them were OURS! (One, a friend backed our car off a bridge without rails and flipped it. The other she was coming home from a Key Club meeting in Baton Rouge, slipped on a curve and flipped.)

As a side note, she had seen a fortune teller at Dickins on the strand in Galveston. She was told she would be in 3 really bad wrecks within a narrow time frame, but would survive. She was told this when she was 14.

Edited to say sorry this is off topic. My apologies to all.

WOW, JAM! That is incredible. I don't really know what to say except that it wasn't her time.

Wow. Three in six months. Hopefully nothing else bad will happen.

Dang JAM, She had better start walking! Cars and she do not seem to mix!:eek:

Glad to hear she is alright tho! I know the feeling I totaled 3 cars, one I drowned! Hondas dont float! Not a dent but mud up the butt! :cool:

Sh#* comes in 3 's and hopefully that is all there is!!!!!!:D

From your mouths to God's ears!

Hootie--

If you don't have a national organization there to reinforce the idea that hazing is wrong, then men/women will get their ideals elsewhere. At my school, there were 5 local sororities, and as far as I know, all of them haze, one pretty bad. My friend pledged there and was taken into the basement of a fraternity house, where brothers of the fraternity threw beer, food and other stuff at them. They had to just stand there and take it. Of course, while all of this was going on, the sisters were laughing and yelling at them. My friend also said that it was a privilege just to get to do the dishes, as it was an easier task then most. It's truly a shame. The sorority is still around today, with great numbers, but LOTS of depledges too. The hazing will continue there as long as nothing is done about it, because the women have the mindset that if they were hazed to "earn their letters" then everyone after them will feel that wrath as well.

If there isn't a Greek Advisor who is looking into all of the hazing that occurs or turning the other cheek, it will happen. International and national organizations have their HQs as watchdogs in this effort. Locals have nothing if a Greek Advisor isn't watching.

Just a side note, this isn't a diss against local fraternities/ sororities. I only know the locals on my own campus, and they hazed. Hell, so did most of the national organizations due to the fact that nobody watched out for them. But I would believe it's much easier to get away with hazing in a local group.