Right now, I sincerely wish U of A released bid lists. Just to quell my curiosity!

Please explain how 30 or 60 NMs are going to make up the difference when chapters are down 150? I know one of the big chapters has 100+ members than several other groups that typically make quota every year. It's not an issue of recruitment. It's an issue of retention.

Can we kindly remove the names of these sororities in the assumed quotas? It just adds to the tent talk, IMHO :)

I agree with Wavycutchip.

I think the comment about just being thrilled with some invites, is actually pretty valid. We read this sort of thing in recruitment stories all the time. "Girls were hysterical all around me because they only got invited back to one house. I was so thrilled to have a nearly full schedule."

I assure you, this feeling was a rarity at Arkansas until this year. Maybe this experiment will pay off...

But, and it's a big but, AOPAngel is right. Retention is key. I do think the whole system is working to be cooperative and supportive of each other. Housing will definitely help. The road is long but I do think it can happen.

Another thought - the larger chapters have retention issues as well. These large classes are a liability to sisterhood and it becomes easy to drift away from the group.

I would have to think the larger you get the harder it is to keep all your members engaged. Some retention with the upper echelon must come with the cache of membership, but I agree that size is a liability of everyone. I have talked to the NM educator from our chapter at Arkansas. They have such creative ways to foster sisterhood in these big chapters that we in smaller chapters would never think of like rotating small groups for new member meetings, Senior- NM, Junior- NM get togethers, etc. I am really impressed. Of course, if you are a wall flower, all of this could be really overwhelming.

I have actually been thinking about this since I read the thread last night and at first I was torn on the issue however I actually think the cap limits are a great ideal.... While I do not think that it is necessarily the right thing for Pan. to "force tiers" I also think in a competitive and "long standing traditional" environment, it might be the only way to move forward. I went to Ole Miss and sadly not only have the so called "tiers" / "top-houses" NOT CHANGED in 20 + years since I was there, but they have lost 2 of their chapters due to numbers. One was a sorority that was re-colonized and took their first official pledge class in 1990- they were closed due to numbers less than 10 years later. It was sad to see an awesome group of girls that colonized and were enthusiastic, pretty, smart etc... lose a house because "no one wanted to join the new house". The other house that closed was equally as sad because no one wanted to join because it had been the "worst house on campus" for "years".

There is so much tent talk and preconceived notions prior to rush (sorry recruitment- old habits die hard) starting from mothers, sisters, grandmothers, etc... that some of these houses don't even stand a chance once recruitment comes along. I can not tell you the number of awesome girls that decided to not go back to a house because of these preconceived notions. So all of that being said by capping quota or imposing different quotas for different houses you are forcing PNM's to consider houses that perhaps they never would have considered before. I don't think this is a bad thing. I also think it forces houses to cut before they are ready to cut, which again is not necessarily a bad thing. Personally I "fell in love" with a house that cut me going into pref night and I was left with 3 houses that I had never even considered. Had this house cut me round one or two, I would have perhaps looked at a lot more houses differently. I did find the PERFECT house for me, however, a lot of girls drop out completely when this happened to them. As recruitment numbers rise each year and houses remain stagnant something has to change or you jeopardize the entire integrity of the greek system. What will end up happening is the biggest will keep getting bigger and the smallest will continue to shrink until they are forced to close, which will then drive quotas on the remaining houses up even higher... It just isn't feasible to continue to have rising quotas-- IMHO a pledge class of 100+ is a pledge class that is way too big! Secondly, I believe the current system prohibits growth. Clearly with pledge classes as large as they are a new Colony would be ideal, however who's nationals are going to spend the kind of money, time and effort a colony requires when the chances of survival are slim to none. Imposing quota limits allow new houses to get their feet on the ground and establish themselves in order to make a viable chapter. PNM's I would think would be more open to a new or smaller house with this system because they are not going to feel like they "got the dredges".... it increases the knowledge that no one house can take everyone no matter how much they like them.

Finally (as everyone breaths a sigh of relief :-) )- I actually think retention would increase. The bigger houses would benefit because their pledge classes would be smaller allowing everyone to get to know each other, bond, etc.... and smaller houses would benefit because not only would they now have enough members to make their presence known on campus, they would also be taking in girls that felt like they had had a choice in their membership not just a group that felt let down that they had gotten the smallest, the newest, the "worst" on campus. For example you have Rudy Recruitee and she is desperate to pledge Gamma Top House. She gets released by them on pref night and is left with Alpha New House. She doesn't want to be in the new house, everyone says they don't cut, etc... etc... BUT she does want to be greek so she goes, she bids she's not happy because all her besties from HS are Gamma Top Houses and she drops.... leaving Alpha New House down one more girl. NOW lets say quotas are in place. Rudy Recruitee is desperate to pledge Gamma Top House... but she knows Gamma Top House has a smaller quota in place than the other houses so she really isn't surprised when they release her before skit. Hey she KNEW she should have volunteered with the homeless this summer instead of working on her tan. Rudy Recruitee heads on to Alpha New House that really wanted her back. Her BFF is also going back there! She likes Alpha New House! she could really be a leader here instead of just "number" at Gamma Top. She prefs, she bids she is in love....The next year she can't wait to show all the recuitees how much her house means to her.....

All and all I actually think its pretty smart-- Its funny but I remember similar discussions when the RFM started being introduced and I think everyone agrees (now) that it actually improved the system.

Change is hard.

And one of the reasons those discussions about RFM happened at the time was that it was new, different, hard to understand and would happen behind the scenes under the work of an RFM specialist. Recruitment is not one of the areas I advise, but one of my advisees is in charge of the IT systems for the Chapter so she works with the Recruitment team. So she starts reading her manual and freaks out over RFM. So she and I learned about RFM together (I'm ancient) so that she would be comfortable when she joined the team this Fall. RFM is more comforting once you understand it and can see why it helps an entire campus be successful. For those Chapters that already have an idea of who just might be on their bid list, they are forced to scale back to a reasonable number of invites so that PNMs that wouldn't have had a chance there are not led on some fairy tale only to be dropped right before pref night.

OldOleMiss, a lot of the things you like about the system are just qualities of RFM. You don't need different quotas for different groups to have this effect. If RFM were used back in the day, those groups at Ole Miss likely never would have closed due to numbers. Would there still be tiers. Yes. There will always be tiers because for some reason humans like popularity contests. RFM is great, but I'm not sure I see the utility of different quotas, and frankly think it's against the UAs.

I think I like the dance party idea better. Setting different quotas just makes the already desirable chapters even more desirable, like the latest "it" bag that there are only 50 of in the world.

More desirable, maybe, but if most of the girls get cut from them after day 1, they'll get over it pretty quick, just like realizing you're never going to be able to afford a $5000 purse. And why would you want one anyway?

I don't know. I agree with the "smaller therefore more desirable" thing. I know at Indiana University, with all of it's wackiness with recruitment, it's the smaller chapters that are on top. The smaller the pledge class, the more desirable they are. This past year there was one chapter that normally takes pledge classes in the upper 30s/low 40s that had to take a pledge class in the low 50s. Everyone wondered what bad had happened to the chapter (nothing bad had happened, they just graduated a large group of seniors the spring before)

If Arkansas continues with a tiered recruitment, then smaller might become "better". If this is only for a year or two, then hopefully not.

How many parties do women attend each round? I didn't rush at a school with really sharp tiers, but it seems like it would be easier to be happy with a full schedule, even of lower-tier chapters, than a partially full schedule. Is that true? Or am I being naive?

Specualtion??
 

How much of these posts are purely speculative? Does anyone have numbers from the Arkansas chapters?

Those of us associated with arkansas - me, wavycutchip, irishpipes, etc - definitely know these numbers. This discussion of capped quotas, etc is based on fact.